tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post1154069935485806039..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: No Wonder The Boys In Purple Have A Problem With Their 'Sisters'colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-84836661560676303322012-05-24T20:38:49.827-06:002012-05-24T20:38:49.827-06:00It isn't that simple Invictus. The Fathers of...It isn't that simple Invictus. The Fathers of the Church have uniformly described women in vicious terms, slightly above Satan, but not much above Satan. Augustine had nice words to say about his mother. He failed to even give his concubine and mother of his son any name recognition. Do me a favor and research this issue, substitute male or men for all the statements about women, to help you identify a little better, and then come back and tell me all of this is not derogatory to women.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-47043179921853528782012-05-23T16:08:14.251-06:002012-05-23T16:08:14.251-06:00Oh give it up, Colkoch. Last time I rebutted that ...Oh give it up, Colkoch. Last time I rebutted that one with quotes from Augustine and the Catechism, you stopped replying!Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-14306451797966682522012-05-21T16:43:15.499-06:002012-05-21T16:43:15.499-06:00Invictus said "I'm not defending paedophi...Invictus said "I'm not defending paedophiles. I've only been defending the doctrines of the Church, and supporting a reasoned and coherent response to such abuses.<br />In my posts, that is what you will always tend to find. I expect charity from everyone, and it is always sad when one finds so little as one does here."<br /><br />If you are "supporting a reasoned and coherent response to such abuses" such as pedophile priests, Invictus, what is the "reasoned and coherent response" that you can offer from dogma alone? <br /><br />Also, if you do not contemplate the "purpose of the Church to discern what it is for" how is it that you seem to believe that charity is fallacious and damaging if you separate charity from the Church's establishment?<br /><br />ButterflyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-80205964991379886242012-05-21T10:52:20.571-06:002012-05-21T10:52:20.571-06:00Join the club Invictus, women have been exposed to...Join the club Invictus, women have been exposed to derogatory language from male Doctors of the Church for two millennium, or is that OK because it was men derogatorily describing women and Vatican men pronouncing their derogatory observations as Catholic belief?colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-71963968750015190692012-05-20T13:50:15.728-06:002012-05-20T13:50:15.728-06:00Who said anyone here is "doomed"? The id...Who said anyone here is "doomed"? The idea is ridiculous.<br /><br />And congrats Colkoch! Your defence of derogatory misandric language because it 'describes a real problem' gave me a good giggle! Very liberal of you. ;-)Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-34597905144112591022012-05-20T13:46:46.520-06:002012-05-20T13:46:46.520-06:00I don't necessarily have to contemplate the pu...I don't necessarily have to contemplate the purpose of the Church to discern what it is for, because it's establishment is scripturally very explicit and is live-out in the world in a very obvious way.<br /><br />Juxtaposing the virtue of charity with the existence of doctrine is not only fallacious, but damaging.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-28041865004852527102012-05-14T23:38:46.149-06:002012-05-14T23:38:46.149-06:00Thanks, Butterfly. I agree.
MattThanks, Butterfly. I agree.<br /><br />Mattmjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-49421820769622498212012-05-14T20:19:07.284-06:002012-05-14T20:19:07.284-06:00Yes, proves your point, again, Matt. And also abo...Yes, proves your point, again, Matt. And also about my point too about charity. Invictus expects it, but can't fathom giving some of it away to the rest of us "doomed" people.<br /><br />ButterflyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24043490398550683272012-05-14T18:12:45.923-06:002012-05-14T18:12:45.923-06:00Pretty much proves my point, doesn't it?
Goin...Pretty much proves my point, doesn't it?<br /><br />Going back to not feeding the troll.mjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-7656674900883940632012-05-14T17:14:16.532-06:002012-05-14T17:14:16.532-06:00So, you mark out my comments as bearing the hallma...So, you mark out my comments as bearing the hallmarks of 'those within the Church'. Why don't yours bear those same hallmarks?Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-84445742295821529952012-05-14T14:01:54.126-06:002012-05-14T14:01:54.126-06:00The dysfunctional family is our family, the Church...The dysfunctional family is our family, the Church. I hope you and yours are doing well. Sorry for any confusion.mjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-6191378454564638782012-05-14T11:35:45.713-06:002012-05-14T11:35:45.713-06:00Connolly,
Being so clearly up on your debating ski...Connolly,<br />Being so clearly up on your debating skills, you'll surely know that ad hominem is off the cards. So, perhaps less conjecture about my dysfunctional family? ;-)<br /><br />Dennis,<br />I'm not a seminarian or a member of Opus Dei.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-13657692962170551572012-05-14T04:48:31.443-06:002012-05-14T04:48:31.443-06:00It seems that a blogger like invictus has a lot of...It seems that a blogger like invictus has a lot of time on his hands. Where does he earn his living? Could it be in an Opus Dei seminary? He has never denied his connections to this hate filled institution.rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-74845142169440674102012-05-13T22:05:06.628-06:002012-05-13T22:05:06.628-06:00Matt, That is exactly what Invictus does. I have...Matt, That is exactly what Invictus does. I have been witnessing this type of thing way too much lately. I agree that it is not the way of Jesus. <br /><br />ButterflyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-13780126837739877022012-05-13T20:32:25.520-06:002012-05-13T20:32:25.520-06:00The technique, Invictus, is to set the bait with a...The technique, Invictus, is to set the bait with a question, probe a bit, find a soft spot or an area of sensitivity, and provoke a response (a little hurried, quick, cutting, or flippant). Then you turn that on the person, talking about impropriety or insensitivity or lack of knowledge. You see it all the time in political campaigns. It's nearly constant in blog response queues. It's a technique used to gain the upper hand , and it's a hallmark of dysfunctional families, especially when someone actually names the elephant in the room. Not dialogue, not the way of Jesus, not what Paul employed. <br /><br />We see you.<br /><br />Matt Connollymjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-58877458093973087252012-05-13T18:56:54.887-06:002012-05-13T18:56:54.887-06:00Invictus,
I would hardly call women's disgust...Invictus, <br />I would hardly call women's disgust, which should not be confused with bitterness, with how the all-male hierarchy has & is treating women in general and women religious currently being inquisitioned as "so quick to perceive slights against women." The entire liturgy excludes women. There is no perception of slights against women, especially in that regard. It is not a perception. It is a reality we experience. We do not exist to the hierarchy in power now. Our voice does not count at all. That sucks. It sucks for the men too that this is going on. <br /><br />Maybe you just need a sense of humor to be able to laugh at the absurdness and the outright hostility towards women from the hierarchy that has a deleterious affect in the Church and in the world. Try walking a mile in our shoes and then get back to us women and tell us about your real life experience.<br /><br />ButterflyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46072274190034411982012-05-13T17:50:21.580-06:002012-05-13T17:50:21.580-06:00You're right Invictus, the language is derogat...You're right Invictus, the language is derogatory, but it does describe a fact about a problem with kind of obedience demanded of our hierarchy. This kind of obedience mitigates against personal courage.<br /><br />Anyway, it was Aquinas who determined women were misbegotten males so that should excuse my misbegotten emphasis of a line in an article written about clerical men by a man.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-18284742857942957852012-05-13T16:33:43.746-06:002012-05-13T16:33:43.746-06:00Then there is something about the interpretation a...Then there is something about the interpretation and/or meaning of the doctrines that you are stuck in and defending which is causing you great confusion and a clinging to doctrine alone, where you will never find the answer. It seems that when reason goes astray into a personal narcissism and defense of the unreasonable against the witness of truth that one cannot come up with a coherent response to such clerical abuses. The fruit of the hierarchy's response to all kinds of abuse is to ignore the truth that others bear witness to, deny the truth, defend dogma over that which is love and that continues the cycle of abuse. <br /><br />I've witnessed many responses to yours Invictus and they have not all been charitable. Perhaps to yourself they have been most charitable. I can't really say that all of your comments have been charitable. If we contemplate on what the Church should be for, the ultimate goal is to find that charity from our most loving Christ. We are not perfect and neither is our neighbor. Is the answer then to bear false witness against our neighbor? Or is the answer in dogma? Or is the answer in asking God for charity?<br /><br />If dogma itself does not contain charity, how can one find charity in it?<br /><br />Also, if one expects charity from everyone, when most are lacking it, and all expect charity that is the exact same as your notion is of charity within the confines of logic or dogma, it sounds to me an unreasonable & selfish form of charity. <br /><br />ButterflyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-64205777065410149762012-05-13T15:58:30.434-06:002012-05-13T15:58:30.434-06:00You seem to be collectively missing the point.
De...You seem to be collectively missing the point.<br /><br />Derogatory language toward men is no more progressive than derogatory language about women.<br /><br />Blog posts along the lines of "Christian men have no balls. They never have done. That sucks, and they ought to man up and grow a set." shouldn't really be created by people who are so quick to perceive slights against women.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-47936244137653229092012-05-13T15:23:14.398-06:002012-05-13T15:23:14.398-06:00Thank you, Colleen. It appears that Invictus overl...Thank you, Colleen. It appears that Invictus overlooks those facts related from the New Testament in his/her/its too eager defense of clericalism and male chauvinism.<br />VeronicaT'Pelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497973041430354008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-80310378412530158622012-05-13T15:08:13.829-06:002012-05-13T15:08:13.829-06:00One interesting fact that we can be fairly certain...One interesting fact that we can be fairly certain of is that great triune God neither has human emotions not human genitalia. Since men of the church continue to express our God as if he were Male, It really seems that the wisdom to keep these men if they really were like humans, together would be the breath of the woman, The Holy Spirit. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42035728524931851732012-05-13T14:28:33.721-06:002012-05-13T14:28:33.721-06:00Jesus had quite nice things to say about eunuchs a...Jesus had quite nice things to say about eunuchs and I bet some of them went on to be leaders in the nascent Christian community. They may not have had physical balls, but they did have courage.<br /><br />Besides, T'Pel is referring to the fact it was a woman who had the courage to say yes to a birth which could easily have resulted in her stoning, and it was women who had the courage to witness the crucifixion and resurrection--and women were most certainly recorded as being present at Pentecost, which is the real starting point for the Church. Our male leadership tends to overlook that point. The Holy Spirit does not seem to require male genitalia for her work.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-50574677333724360142012-05-13T13:57:01.425-06:002012-05-13T13:57:01.425-06:00I'm not defending paedophiles. I've only b...I'm not defending paedophiles. I've only been defending the doctrines of the Church, and supporting a reasoned and coherent response to such abuses.<br />In my posts, that is what you will always tend to find. I expect charity from everyone, and it is always sad when one finds so little as one does here.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-54818293579165891042012-05-13T13:54:33.661-06:002012-05-13T13:54:33.661-06:00"The clergy have no balls" is a "fa..."<i>The clergy have no balls</i>" is a "fact related from the New Testament?<br /><br />Nice one, V. Smooth logic.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-25846020112017152152012-05-13T13:50:32.676-06:002012-05-13T13:50:32.676-06:00Invictus, you insist on everyone else having chari...Invictus, you insist on everyone else having charity except those in the leadership of the Church who are enabling hypocrites when it comes to charity. Since when is pedophilia & the enabling of them charitable, or misogyny, or gay-bashing, or economic greed or the enabling of such wilful ignorance, charitable?<br /><br />The very idea of charity from what I can see of your writings is frozen in a snowball of enabling concoctions from any snowflake of an excuse and it is spinning out of control. The uncharitable snowballs of enabling & hypocrite bishops has been falling down the Vatican palace mountain of enabling hypocrites of all sorts of abuse and it really has nowhere else to go but downhill at ever increasing speed. As this enabling snowball gathers speed from the weight of gravity pulling it down, it is also ever more speedily getting larger and larger for all to see the path of destruction from the Church's leaders of uncharitable enablers of abuses against their neighbors.<br /><br />ButterflyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com