tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post1799257872040143478..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Stop Engines: Full Speed Asterncolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-86655858541687977882011-07-12T14:15:42.520-06:002011-07-12T14:15:42.520-06:00The whole thing sounds a bit Oedipal.The whole thing sounds a bit Oedipal.Translynxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-51605900549257306612011-07-11T19:46:31.351-06:002011-07-11T19:46:31.351-06:00Jack I seriously can not make heads or tail of all...Jack I seriously can not make heads or tail of all these gender sex metaphors any more. They make utterly no sense to me. <br /><br />I'm much more into notions like: "the church as the body of Christ is a quantum matrix of human and trans human consciousness operating in multiple dimensions and across all time. It is Love in action in the multi universe." OK I'll grant it's not nearly so poetic, but is more accurate given our current knowledge base. :)colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-57820436949217359002011-07-11T13:48:29.729-06:002011-07-11T13:48:29.729-06:00Perhaps the next assembly of cardinals could start...Perhaps the next assembly of cardinals could start with an urgent short course on anthropology, genders, and related Church metaphors. Recently, Cardinal George told how consecrated virgins are "called to represent not Christ but his body, the church." He then described the church as "understanding of herself as virgin and mother, the bride of Christ". That meta-metaphor manages to capture in a few words about half the human race, although inexplicably, even after allowing for the one Catholic exception to the usual rule on virgin-mothers. <br />More curious than the spoken words is what is going on in hierarchical heads before the mouth opens. What thoughts do you suppose lurk there? <br />http://www.catholicnewworld.com/cnwonline/2011/0619/cardinal.aspxJack Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-89827683549441199062011-07-11T10:56:26.083-06:002011-07-11T10:56:26.083-06:00The reversal by the dear Cardinal is, sadly, too p...The reversal by the dear Cardinal is, sadly, too predictable. Still, for an organization (i.e., the Roman Curia) used to a "Control and Command" structure, it must've been unnerving to hear a "Prince of the Church" utter such "heresy."<br /><br />I find snubbing the Archbishop of Dublin more disturbing. The Vatican keeps saying, "It gets it. It gets it." when it comes to the abuse scandal. But they don't. I wonder how basely bishops will have to be treated before they say, "Enough!"kevin57https://www.blogger.com/profile/01681985465980196347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-83447443919037699042011-07-11T06:58:28.825-06:002011-07-11T06:58:28.825-06:00I caught that too rat, the seeming equivalence of ...I caught that too rat, the seeming equivalence of Mary with Jesus. But then JPII was seriously considering an ex cathedra statement in which Mary's new title would be co redemptrix. <br /><br />Cardinal Ratzinger somehow effectively killed that idea. It's funny how Ratzinger could be forceful with bad dogma, but not pedophile priests.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-60067725289283376292011-07-10T20:33:26.667-06:002011-07-10T20:33:26.667-06:00“The fact that there are no women among these coop...“The fact that there are no women among these cooperators and successors does not mean a minimization of women, but the search for the complementarity between males and females, fully realized in the relationship of Christ with Mary”.<br /><br />Let's see: <br /><br />Some males - not many, only a few hundred thousand in each generation, out of hundreds of millions - are able to be ordained. <br /><br />No females at all, in any generation, are able even to be considered for ordination, whether they should be or not. <br /><br />So if complementarity can work in a way that allows this rather striking imbalance among men and women, how is it complementary ? How are women *not*, in fact, being minimised ? ISTM the analogy raises the very questions it is intended to explain. <br /><br />BTW, that quotation treats Christ and Mary as though they were co-equal; it certainly does not discourage the idea. Sorry, but that sort of co-ordination of them is totally baseless. IT's untrue, so it cannot bear good fruit for a theolgy that calls itself Christian. The Mother of God is very important, but she is only a Saint; not the Incarnate Word.Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-34209700513993949132011-07-10T20:16:33.020-06:002011-07-10T20:16:33.020-06:00I found that entry both hilarious and maddening. H...I found that entry both hilarious and maddening. Hilarious because of the way in which the Cardinal was reversing himself at high speed, and maddening because of the snubbing of Archbishop Martin. <br /><br />As for this little gem:<br /><br />"...the search for the complementarity between males and females, fully realized in the relationship of Christ with Mary"<br /><br />- is he implying they were *married* ? If they could be complementary, and not be sacramentally married, then two gays can be complementary, and not be sacramentally married: which means that his remark either <br /><br />1. allows gay marriage, or, <br /><br />2. blows the insistence on the defining nature of complementarity between sacramentally-married spouses out of the water, as complementary can, according to his remark, be found outside marriage. <br /><br />Unless, that is, he is using the notion of complementarity in a way that has nothing to do with marriage; but it seems to be used only in that context. So his meaning is far from clear.<br /><br />When a cardinal, no less, cannot get his message right the first time, or tries to explain away his words rather than explaining them, what message does that send ? Either way, he ends up looking a numpty. Archbishop Lefebvre was better than this: he was unambiguous, and he refused to knuckle under when he did not and could not agree with Rome. If only the Cardinals had that sort of courage. <br /><br />As for the snubbing of Archbishop Martin - is it not just possible that the Vatican needs to listen to someone like him, *precisely because* it does not want to ? Those who massage our egos & tell us how wonderful we are often do us great harm, whereas those who criticise us often say just what we need to hear. If this is true for individuals, how is not true for the Church ? <br /><br />ISTM that the two incidents are united by the theme of Churchly unwillingness to hear inconvenient words.Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-11324156505626339602011-07-10T15:53:54.222-06:002011-07-10T15:53:54.222-06:00Prickliest, when I first read that line I wondered...Prickliest, when I first read that line I wondered if it was Freudian or something. I wondered if the good Cardinal wasn't all that enamored with any of JPII's thoughts about women. If a person really spends any time with JPII's writings, women do come off as very secondary--after one gets past all the theobabble. Except of course for Mary, who is every priest's mother.<br /><br />I wish some of these clerical guys would get together and come up with some kind of coherency when it comes to how they use bridal and family metaphors. It's all getting silly.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-19165468951535891312011-07-10T15:11:37.828-06:002011-07-10T15:11:37.828-06:00I have to admit I feel extremely discouraged.
On ...I have to admit I feel extremely discouraged.<br /><br />On the one hand, the new English translation of the Mass appears to be unnecessarily sexist. Why not use google translate if you want a word for word translation without nuance and respect for the culture(s) of the people? Instead it is a cultural war.<br /><br />Here's the plea of 10% of all Irish priests: Delay this implementation and review the work for context.<br /><br />http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/02/04/irish-priests-claim-new-mass-translation-is-elitist-and-sexist/ <br /><br />But what is more astounding is the disgusting absolutism of the self appointed inquisitors, or Cathoic mutaween as I like to call them. Just read the comments that follow the story. Shut up and obey or get out!<br /><br />I can't stand the casually cruel racism, sexism and antisemitism of of those who claim to to "orthodox" catholics, but who are at heart the authoritarian inheritors of the Pharisee tradition. Yes those who were strongly criticized by Jesus for valuing outward appearances over the affairs of the heart. <br /><br />So? So, we all know there's no theological reason to deny women. <br /><br />Mother of God have mercy on us all. <br /><br />p2p<br /><br />Word: saltion<br />That's only two letters away from salvation. "VA" could be Vicar Apostolic for those traditionalists. Or it could be "va" from the French and romance languages: "go". So what's between salt and salvation, a question to either recognize authority or to go?<br /><br />On the other hand maybe I'm looking for something that isn't really there. Salt ion. That's the scientific answer.<br /><br />Or maybe it is just random...<br /><br />It is a beautiful summer day here. I'm going to see if there's any veritas in vino.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23862183028404791822011-07-10T14:17:55.187-06:002011-07-10T14:17:55.187-06:00"...the search for the complementarity betwee...<i>"...the search for the complementarity between males and females, fully realized in the relationship of Christ with Mary."</i><br /><br />Sometimes people's theobabble gets away from them, and I suspect that's what happened here.<br /><br />There's a thin line between language that is only superficially meaningful and language that is utterly meaningless both in appearance and substance.PrickliestPearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07606660660913560540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42630020495786992862011-07-10T13:24:17.173-06:002011-07-10T13:24:17.173-06:00That's pretty much what I got out of it as wel...That's pretty much what I got out of it as well. I want to keep my job so I love the Pope and Jesus and Mary are pretty swell too.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-89884905654716137682011-07-10T12:21:05.907-06:002011-07-10T12:21:05.907-06:00Cardinal Policarp is probably hoping the Vatican h...Cardinal Policarp is probably hoping the Vatican has as much trouble understanding the translation of what he said as you. Like you, I have no idea what Policarp is trying to say in his clarification other than: "I'm with the pope, I want to keep my job." That, I think, is what Policarp hopes the Vatican will understand.<br /><br />I read what he said at the Union of Catholic Asian News Ltd. <br /><br />http://www.ucanews.com/2011/06/27/women-priests-when-god-wills-cardinal<br /><br />It's clear he is strongly stating that there is no theological reason for not ordaining women as priests. <br /><br />Policarp must not have received JPII's letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis which was JPII's way of trying to make the non ordination of women some kind of infallible teaching. Well, Policarp did receive the letter. He just disagreed with it. “I think – said Cardinal Polycarp – that the matter cannot be resolved like this."wild hairhttp://wildhair95.bogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-32111477796526274262011-07-10T09:37:47.069-06:002011-07-10T09:37:47.069-06:00Policarpo probably didn't want to be unceremon...Policarpo probably didn't want to be unceremoniously removed from office, like Australian bishop William Morris. I hope Catholica is able to dig up more on that travesty.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.com