tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post2836985818304560446..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Catholic Democrats vs Catholic Democratscolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-84001830552528260282008-09-11T10:24:00.000-06:002008-09-11T10:24:00.000-06:00I've noticed that when some folks, especially reli...I've noticed that when some folks, especially religious fanatics talk about abortion, that they call it "infanticide" or "killing children" or "killing babies" and "the culture of death." This is really false. <BR/><BR/>It is not until the 12th week of gestation that it is called a "fetus" in the medical field. At 11 weeks of gestation the size is -- length 0.9 inch (2.3cm), weight 0.07 ounce (2gm). That's not an infant as those who are against abortion try to say and try to push the grotesque visual of a dead infant being left to die. At these earlier stages it is not possible to leave an "infant" gasping for breath and let to die as anti-abortionist claim so often. This is not a "baby, an infant, or a child." I would guess that most abortions occur up to this 12th week stage and even earlier, long before it is even called a "fetus", but the hysterical fanatics imagine in their heads otherwise and exaggerate this way out of proportion to an outright lie in saying it is an infant, a child or a baby that is aborted. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, in the pre-fetus stages of pregnancy the fact is that the placenta isn't even functioning yet, so it is even arguable if the woman is actually a mother yet in the pre-fetus stages. She is pregnant but she is not a mother yet and is not yet even tied to the fetus because the placenta is not providing nourishment in these earlier stages.<BR/><BR/>Colleen, I would also like to see how these arguments would play out in courts. If criminalizing abortion and lethally injecting someone for killing, what was killed? It is not an abortion of a child, an infant or baby yet, or even a fetus yet in the first trimester.butterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684946870144030594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-10052853303083794632008-09-10T21:36:00.000-06:002008-09-10T21:36:00.000-06:00The deleted comment is mine. Bill I appreciate yo...The deleted comment is mine. Bill I appreciate your bringing to our attention the hacking of the Catholic United For the Common Good sit.<BR/><BR/>You're right that the concept of the common good has historically had different points of view within Catholicism. All we need do to see this is to look at WWII. Different concepts of the common good were espoused by Catholics of different countries, and they sought to kill each other to prove it. In the meantime the Vatican stayed silent, well at least silent in the main.<BR/><BR/>Until the right to lifers are willig to deal with the elephant in the living room--that they would be happy to lethally inject to mother who aborted her fetus, I have no respect for their desire to criminalize abortion for any reason at all times.<BR/><BR/>My hope is that more people will start to look at this from the prosecution end of things, and not the hypethetical ain't I so Christ like point of things. Maybe then they can see that Jesus did not advocate for changes in secular law. He was about converting people to see their connections, not their separations and their sins.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-34312514429442022522008-09-10T20:51:00.000-06:002008-09-10T20:51:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-37164842904591405032008-09-10T14:15:00.000-06:002008-09-10T14:15:00.000-06:00Collen, sorry to go on at length, but I just remem...Collen, sorry to go on at length, but I just remembered something else I wanted to note in my comments above. <BR/><BR/>The Catholics United for the Common Good website announced recently that it has been attacked by Jack Smith, editor of the "Catholic Key," the Catholic newspaper of the diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph (www.catholics-united.org/?q=node/201).<BR/><BR/>The attack occurred on Mr. Smith's Catholic Key blog (http://catholickey.blogspot.com/2008/09/cardinal-george-slams-common-good-fraud.html).<BR/><BR/>Catholics, of course, have differences of opinion about political (and religious) matters. And we have a right to those differences. <BR/><BR/>But if the report on Catholics United blogsite is correct, this attack on an organization promoting the consistent ethic of life and attention to the longstanding tradition of the common good in Catholic pro-life politics is underhanded and dishonest.<BR/><BR/>And that's not good, if it's true. I see increasing bullying going on on the part of a religious right (and its Catholic allies) who are determined to have only one viewpoint--namely, theirs--accepted as "the" pro-life viewpoint.<BR/><BR/>And what a betrayal of the Catholic tradition, with its seamless garment approach and common good theology, if that is allowed to happen. I am perturbed in the extreme by the polarizing politics in which the bishops are now engaged, and the way those politics undercut our pro-life tradition.William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-70679103656150973782008-09-10T14:03:00.000-06:002008-09-10T14:03:00.000-06:00Colleen, thank you for linking to my blog postings...Colleen, thank you for linking to my blog postings about the same theme today. I won't repeat here the points I make in those postings, since you've linked to them.<BR/><BR/>What I do want to note is that Thaddeus McCotter is a religious-right culture warrior who attacked Catholics United for the Common Good last October as "false prophets" and "the devil cit[ing] Scripture for his own purpose" (see http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWY5NDllOTZiNWFkMmM1ZTQyZjQyZWIyMzU4YTQyNjc=)<BR/><BR/>This after McCotter and other right-wing Catholics voted against the expansion of S-CHIP to help provide health coverage for poor children. Many leading Catholic groups working with the poor pleaded for the expansion of S-CHIP.<BR/><BR/>To me, this refusal to expand health coverage for poor children sharply illustrates what is at stake in stake in the bishops' continued willingness to lend their pastoral authority to the religious right. We end up implying that the ONLY issue on which we are pro-life is abortion.<BR/><BR/>And in doing so, we undermine the fullness of Catholic teaching about life and we contribute (as my blog says) to creating and protecting those "places" in our culture from which behavior antithetical to the ethic of life arises.<BR/><BR/>It's time for the Catholic people to ask the bishops to stop contributing to the public square except in a partial and partisan way that undercuts our core values about life. It's time to assert our right to participate in the teaching office of the church.William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.com