tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post350918495690007862..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Women Priests, Breaking Male Sacrificial Traditioncolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-60447996286487768522008-12-18T13:42:00.000-07:002008-12-18T13:42:00.000-07:00Mlou, you're absolutely correct, but once the Chur...Mlou, you're absolutely correct, but once the Church became a social institution rather than a gathering of believers, it had to adopt the same concept of sacred priesthood offering sacred sacrifice as it's Roman, Greek, and Jewish forerunners.<BR/><BR/>Jesus was adamant. Call no man Rabbi, call no man your father, you have no other Master save the Messiah.... That may be true for small groups, but not for formal institutionalized religion. The messenger is in direct opposition to the message, but I guess we're not supposed to see that.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23536873505798851172008-12-18T13:17:00.000-07:002008-12-18T13:17:00.000-07:00The Bishop also said that without the priesthood t...The Bishop also said that without the priesthood there is no Eucharist. What hubris! Whenever someone 'sacrifices' themselves for the sake of the other, Eucharist happens. He has reduced Eucharist to an object, and a magical one at that....one that only happens when the PRIEST says the magical words. The bishop needs to deepen his notion of Eucharist and just what it is that Jesus has called all of us to be in this world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-81545687514657059802008-12-18T10:15:00.000-07:002008-12-18T10:15:00.000-07:00But Bill, access to the BIG POWER, is the payoff f...But Bill, access to the BIG POWER, is the payoff for the sacrifice of the little power. Access to the BIG POWER justifies whatever they want to do, say, or command from the 'little people'.<BR/><BR/>The trouble is the BIG POWER is much much bigger than their little definition and probable cares very little about their notions of sacrifice.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-38254919920460083052008-12-18T07:25:00.000-07:002008-12-18T07:25:00.000-07:00Colleen, you've made clear for me a link I didn't ...Colleen, you've made clear for me a link I didn't see so clearly until now. <BR/><BR/>You say, "The official sacrificer must officially sacrifice something in order to obtain official power."<BR/><BR/>There's a shell game going on here. The claim is that Father is uniquely qualified to effect the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because he himself has sacrificed in a unique way. <BR/><BR/>So this is the liturgical link to the bogus game of self-denial by the big men on top, about which I wrote recently!<BR/><BR/>We hear about their struggles and sacrifices, and about their self-denial, because those struggles, sacrifices, and self-denial qualify them to preside at liturgy.<BR/><BR/>And to have power in the church. Power over the rest of us. Because of the sacrificial liturgical role they play. <BR/><BR/>And isn't it interesting that, while they tell those of us under them to sacrifice our desire for power, or to mortify our desires for self-assertion, power is the one thing they do NOT renounce, in their lives of self-denial?William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-37913819493513056092008-12-17T20:43:00.000-07:002008-12-17T20:43:00.000-07:00dear colkoch. . .what you post here is most intere...dear colkoch. . .what you post here is most interesting. . .This last weekend watched the documentary called Deliver Us From Evil concerning Priest and sexual abuse. . .Fr. Tom Doyle was in it and i was impressed with him. . .<BR/><BR/> He mentioned how the disciples, Priests, and the Popes where not celibate to start with. . .He said celibacy was instituted to deny property rights to the offspring of the Priest, thus assuring the material wealth stayed within the Church rather than being passed to biological heirs. . .<BR/><BR/>Once again it was the same root cause as the root bases of marriage that Slain talked about in his book (Sex, Time and Power) . . .I find it interesting how power to insure materialism is so often disguised as issues related to sexuality. . . <BR/><BR/>Why does this strategy continue to work?. . .<BR/><BR/>Instead of talking about sexuality being the root of all evil. .<BR/> .what is the root that needs to be addressed?. . .<BR/><BR/>It seems to me all theses sexual related issues are just slick manipulation to misdirect the underlying issues. . .<BR/><BR/>And maybe the only question that will ever bring light to the surface here is not going to come from the Priest. . . Why does the laity allow their voices to be muffled?. . .<BR/><BR/>I write this without judgment but would love to here your opinion on the question. . .riverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06788063200800504460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-88345317209251516782008-12-17T15:21:00.000-07:002008-12-17T15:21:00.000-07:00The petitions are only part of the process. There...The petitions are only part of the process. There needs to be one more set of petitions: one signed by all of those who would be willing to walk away from the RCC and to the WOC. <BR/><BR/>Each one who was willing to move, would represent a significant diminishment to the power and prestige of the RCC. Not to mention, a significant decrease in the RCC's income.<BR/><BR/>When such petitions are signed in large enough numbers, the Vatican will have two choices, continue business as usual or, submit. Care to guess which one they are most likely to take. My opinion: they will take the path of hate and violence, as they have historically done in an attempt to squash the rebellion.<BR/><BR/>There are currently 30+M disaffected catholics in this country who are yearning for a true home. How many of the 75+ percent of those who are active but not participating, are looking for a home as well. And, once the floodgates opened, how many active congregations would choose to dissociate from the RCC.<BR/><BR/>As disheartening as it was to watch, we saw a precursor in the Episcopal/Anglican schism this year. That event is still unfolding, but it is interesting to see how clearly the congregations are seperating now.<BR/><BR/>One other possibility that I am exploring is the requirements for becoming certified as a lay minister in the WOC. At the moment, there are relatively few priest/priestesses for the US, which would suggest the possibility that the laity could fill a very needed role.COL55https://www.blogger.com/profile/07057765287988790129noreply@blogger.com