tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post3819215062658858932..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Atheists, Nazis, And The Perfect Societycolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-80538911856643093402010-09-19T17:38:44.953-06:002010-09-19T17:38:44.953-06:00That's funny, and maybe a little true.That's funny, and maybe a little true.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-22587344910987807572010-09-19T17:22:06.279-06:002010-09-19T17:22:06.279-06:00PHOTO CAPTION:
Her Majesty, whose parents devoted ...PHOTO CAPTION:<br />Her Majesty, whose parents devoted their lives to resistance to Nazism and fascism, might well be thinking, <i>"We are not amused!"</i>protestant Queennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65440583805947712822010-09-18T13:12:12.233-06:002010-09-18T13:12:12.233-06:00By the way, butterfly, I think the pope is unable ...By the way, butterfly, I think the pope is unable to see what happened under Hitler because he is busy following the same "philosophy" of ruling. See here for a summary:<br /><br />http://therapysblog-fromtpm.blogspot.com/2010/09/who-is-leo-strauss-and-why-should-we.html<br /><br />(It's no longer at TPM, because the Cafe Reader blogs closed... but I've saved it at my "digest" of my TPM blogs.)TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-48055781155128031072010-09-18T13:09:25.494-06:002010-09-18T13:09:25.494-06:00butterfly, that was an OUTSTANDING comment! Kudos...butterfly, that was an OUTSTANDING comment! Kudos!<br /><br />You are so hopeful... saying he hasn't recognized it "yet" - may your words become true... May the "yet" yet happen! (though honestly I am not so hopeful...) So, while I have little hope for the pope, I have faith in you!TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-80221660793022285462010-09-18T12:34:06.385-06:002010-09-18T12:34:06.385-06:00What scares me are the political parallels between...What scares me are the political parallels between Germany just before the Nazi takeover and the present state of the United States, and that many Americans are either politically passive or get politically active from swallowing the untruths they hear from Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Fox News. Butterfly is right about the political scene in Germany as a result of the Vatican concordat with Nazi Germany. The Vatican reached a similar concordat with Mussolini's Italy in 1929. Between 1870 and 1929, the Vatican demonstrated an unmitigated hostility toward the secular government of unified Italy and the popes during that period were aptly said to have "sulked in the Vatican." Pius XII became Pope in 1939 (after the concordat with Nazi Germany) and he was personally far more concerned about Communism than Fascism. Pius XII, while still Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, had a close relationship with Germany, as he had served as a Vatican diplomat there, and spoke fluent German. The Catholic clergy had some members who sided completely with the Nazi regime, like the priests documented in Kevin Spicer's "Hitler's Priests" and others like Father Bernard Lichtenberg, who spoke out against the Nazi persecution of Germany's Jews and found himself arrested and sent to Dachau. Fr. Lichtenberg died en route to imprisonment at Dachau. <br /><br />I think it would be an extremely bad move for the Church to canonize Pius XII or John Paul II.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-88363470762915959942010-09-18T11:01:59.579-06:002010-09-18T11:01:59.579-06:00Dennis, I have great faith that the Irish are quit...Dennis, I have great faith that the Irish are quite capable of saving Western civilization once again, which is why I post on Irish Catholicism a great deal.<br /><br />The Polish part of me is quite content with what Polish Catholicism has already accomplished in the demise of communism. I guess this isn't too surprising since historically both cultures have been over run and over run by neighbors and other cultures. They have been through the crucible of history and managed to retain the best of their identities. They aren't the only ones, just the most prominent of the European ones.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-45469477686489849662010-09-18T10:26:44.909-06:002010-09-18T10:26:44.909-06:00The era of Hitler has been problematic for the chu...The era of Hitler has been problematic for the church. The Church very much wants to make Pius XII a saint as he ruled in a time of paternalism that was pleasing to the curia and the bishops especially those recently appointed by the JPII -Ratzy rule. One of the reasons that Pius has not been canonized is that the curia knows that it will injure any friendly relationships with Jewish people and Israel. So Benedict seems to be eschewing much of history to make this era seem different. I wonder what the Jewish people will say to this attempt? <br /><br />This is much the same thing the Church does and did with science. This idea of infallibility gives them the means to say to the "faithful" lambs (real catholics) because we say it, it is true and must be believed. Belief becomes part of a faith mandate. People are supposed to adhere to whatever the Pope and the Bishops decree no matter how truthful it is. We are in an era of creeping infallibility (authoritarianism.) This mind set is one of fear and non tolerance. The very root is of these feeling come from the poor leadership of the Church(s). <br /><br />No matter what the Pope says as Colleen and Butterfly aptly point out, it doesn’t change history. Pius XII made decisions that were very poor and aided the formation of a stronger Nazism. No matter how much the Vatican disputes this, I’ll bet there will be Jewish and other historians that will speak out. When a Catholic Historian speaks out, will he no longer be Catholic? Many would and will say that she/ he is not a “real Catholic.” The same is true for scientists. This is one of the problems with authoritarian regimes. The Authoritarian deludes himself into believing that he is always correct and takes umbrage to those how do not believe him and then will accuse the historian or scientist of scandal, mistruth, or slander. <br /><br />The problem with authoritarianism is that it always decrease tolerance and often leads to violence in society. Let’s hope that the Irish priests and others that are standing up against this regime can be successful enough to change the tide. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42217769791774843822010-09-17T22:20:43.385-06:002010-09-17T22:20:43.385-06:00A year or so ago I did a google search on the 1930...A year or so ago I did a google search on the 1930s in Germany to get a sense of what happened back then politically so as to gain some understanding of what lead up to Hitler gaining power: who were the major players, the parties, the politicians? What were the topics being discussed? What was going on? I began with these basic questions and I ran across Fr. Ludwig Kaas in that brief study. It is a fascinating read. <br /><br />All hell really broke loose immediately after the signing of the Concordat and the RCC helped that to happen. It is a fact that a lot of Catholics want to deny. It is a fact that a lot of Catholics can't deny. Some woke up at that point, when the hell broke out in Germany, but it was too late. Democracy was over.<br /><br />The Church was more focused on getting deals from the powers in the world for the interest of the administration of the Vatican than in anything else during that period and prior. I wound up having to go further back in history to see what the Church was doing for 50-150 years before that. The Vatican was always bickering with some leader about losing the Papal States and getting properties back from previous wars. That stood out as their main concern, at least from the Vatican.<br /><br />From what I can gather about what Pope Benedict sees as the truth of that time is that he does not have the entire truth of that time. He's sort of blocked out major portions of it out. He is sort of stuck in a child-like view of the world. The truth is available to him, but he just doesn't get it yet. He's dead set against people who are pushed to the edge of extinction by economic policies and doesn't like to see them organize against any kind of authority he approves of. <br /><br />The Queen seems to get it by the look on her face in the photo. Pope Benedict should hold onto his hat because the winds of change do not wait for those who are late in reading the signs of the times.<br /><br />It certainly was not "atheist extremism" that helped Hitler get into power. Interesting he brings up "truncated vision of man and of society" - "a reductive vision of a person and his destiny" which is precisely where his vision is at currently in issues pertaining to gays and women.<br /><br />Great read Colleen. Thank you!! <br /><br />word verif: visess - vi regressionbutterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684946870144030594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-55650982602493369322010-09-17T15:23:00.402-06:002010-09-17T15:23:00.402-06:00The pope: Shredding logic in just 4 days!
Anot...The pope: Shredding logic in just 4 days! <br /><br />Another illogical comment is related to his view that people are marginalizing christianity - "even in nations which place a great emphasis on tolerance." (to quote the bbc)<br /><br />Hmmmm.... tolerance. The intolerant Vatican is complaining some states are betraying tolerance!TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-52008435692364188722010-09-17T15:13:13.931-06:002010-09-17T15:13:13.931-06:00The Pope appears able to overlook almost anything....The Pope appears able to overlook almost anything. He continues to respond in anguish to clerical sexual abuse as if he just found out about it last week, overlooking thirty years in which he had multiple, varied exposures to the Church's problem. This week, he reminded England of her Christian roots, apparently overlooking the blood-soaked ground in which they grew. The most charitable explanation is that no one briefs him or, after being suitably briefed, he overlooks whatever he's been told.Jack Bnoreply@blogger.com