tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post6781835705688855495..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Are Traditional Anglicans Suddenly The New Catholic Left?colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24815839821391108152009-10-21T18:44:16.624-06:002009-10-21T18:44:16.624-06:00Grrrrrrrrr --
That should be "wait UNTIL tho...Grrrrrrrrr --<br /><br />That should be "wait UNTIL those who 'pope'"<br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-27018650189332139522009-10-21T18:42:49.706-06:002009-10-21T18:42:49.706-06:00As I said elsewhere on the Commonweal blog:
What ...As I said elsewhere on the Commonweal blog:<br /><br />What makes optimists think that these folks will become Catholic in the true sense of “full communion?” They will always be Anglicans who will soon enough discover that they are apples in a larger church of persimmons. <br /><br />Episcopalians are used to lay leadership in their parishes in the form of a responsible and authoritative Vestry. And then there is the average RC Parish Council ---- major wimp time. Wait this those who "pope" come up against RC "Father is in charge of it all" practice. Oh, yeah --<br /><br />I wonder how many will stick it out once they are badgered with Roman disagreement with their parish polity, their way of electing bishops (THAT won’t last!), their desire to ordain married men as priests, and — here’s the good’un: the Roman obsession with the evils of divorce and abortion. <br /><br />Oh, it will be a long hard ride to “full communion” for these folks. I suspect that the recidivism rate will be hushed up, but substantial, particulary in the early months and years.<br /><br />Jim McCreaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-17371804207419152252009-10-21T17:57:39.383-06:002009-10-21T17:57:39.383-06:00"Historical and ecumenical reasons preclude t..."Historical and ecumenical reasons preclude the ordination of married men as bishops in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches". <br /><br />## Ecumenism ? Oh, *that*. And there I was, thinking the RCC couldn't care a brass farthing for ecumenism, after it tore up forty years of ecumenism with the Cof E & Anglicans, by doing this:<br /><br />"When it comes to elegant funerals, no one can beat the Vatican. Look at the phrases with which it buried all hopes of reunion, or even significant negotiations, with the Anglican Communion, by announcing that it would now welcome whole groups of Anglicans, with their own bishops, liturgies, and even – if they must have them – wives, to become Roman Catholic priests. "Without the dialogues of the past 40 years, this recognition would not have been possible, nor would hopes for full visible unity have been nurtured. In this sense, this apostolic constitution is one consequence of ecumenical dialogue between the Catholic church and the Anglican Communion."<br /><br />Rest of article here:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/oct/20/religion-catholicism<br /><br />Wasthe Archbishop of Canterbury informed of this "welcome" ? Yes - at almost the last moment. Before that, Rome intrigued - there is no other word for it - with two of the C of E's<br />"flying" bishops, who went to Rome and talked things over without letting the Archbishop of Canterbury know what they were planning: viz., to "jump ship" taking a few hundred Anglican priests with them. <br /><br />"VATICAN CITY – The Vatican announced Tuesday it was making it easier for Anglicans to convert to Roman Catholicism — a surprise move designed to entice traditionalists opposed to women priests, openly gay clergy and the blessing of same-sex unions.<br /><br />The decision, reached in secret by a small cadre of Vatican officials, was sure to add to the problems of the 77-million-strong Anglican Communion as it seeks to deal with deep doctrinal divisions that threaten a permanent schism among its faithful." <br /><br />http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091020/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_anglicans<br /><br />"Add to the problems..?" What a coincidence [exits in search of sick-bag]. <br /><br />The whole thing is more than disgraceful - it's unbelievable. Each time I think I can't possibly be more shocked by the ghastliness of Rome, some new vileness happens :(Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-84557012771682429932009-10-21T10:01:54.502-06:002009-10-21T10:01:54.502-06:00I have a feeling this is going to be a non-story a...I have a feeling this is going to be a non-story after awhile. If conservative Anglicans, angry with their communion's progressiveness (I almost wrote "sanity"), have refrained from joining the RCC up until now, there is probably a reason for that. I doubt the numbers will be very significant.<br /><br />As for the SSPX crowd's reaction to married priests, there are already a number of married former Anglicans serving as Catholic priests. Now there will be a few more.PrickliestPearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07606660660913560540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-43874882944306657962009-10-21T09:49:58.863-06:002009-10-21T09:49:58.863-06:00My prediction is that Rome has made a mistake in a...My prediction is that Rome has made a mistake in a number of ways with this one. It's not bright to welcome the spiritual cancer of one Religion into your own. Especially when that spiritual cancer has advantages the main body does not.<br /><br />TAC whined their way into Rome's heart and what worked for them once, they will continue to use. There are all kinds of issues on which they can continue to whine with in Catholicism.<br /><br />This may turn out to be a match made in hell.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-62200351350142498342009-10-20T23:53:34.342-06:002009-10-20T23:53:34.342-06:00Sorry, it's late and I wanted to make a change...Sorry, it's late and I wanted to make a change to what I wrote two times. <br /><br />I hear the rustling of frou frou and new money for the Vatican. <br /><br />This will backfire on them and as Jim Color Me Optimistic McCrea says it opens doors to some interesting possibilities. The new recruits from the Anglican Church will have plenty to argue about amongst one another. The Anglican Church will become the backdoor to the Roman Catholic Church, for those that Colleen points out are gay bashers and misogynist and probably diehard rich capitalist of the Milton Friedman variety.<br /><br />"Compared to SSPX, traditional Anglicans could be considered the new Catholic progressive movement."<br /><br />They'll be slinging mud at each other in no time flat.butterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684946870144030594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-10148297157976871642009-10-20T23:50:42.231-06:002009-10-20T23:50:42.231-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.butterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684946870144030594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-9724442711692795482009-10-20T23:42:18.067-06:002009-10-20T23:42:18.067-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.butterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684946870144030594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-44938552910813452142009-10-20T17:25:26.029-06:002009-10-20T17:25:26.029-06:00Just think about it. With an influx of the disaff...Just think about it. With an influx of the disaffected Anglicans into a new "Rite", <br />this means that Roman Catholics will be finally be able to:<br /><br />*Run their parishes via vestries, rather than priestly fiat.<br />*Own their own property.<br />*Have a distinct say in electing their bishops.<br />*Have a say in who their pastors will be, and the removal therof if things aren’t working<br />*Ordain women and married men.<br /><br />Also, former RC priests who left and joined Anglicanism and got married will be back in the church.<br /><br />Sounds good to me; bring it on! The internal stampede to join this new Rite will be overwhelming!<br /><br />Maybe the Holy Spirit IS micromanaging things after all.<br /><br />Jim Color Me Optimistic McCreaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-77624367875291571412009-10-20T16:52:11.679-06:002009-10-20T16:52:11.679-06:00I don't think the incoming Anglicans will want...I don't think the incoming Anglicans will want to dump their married clergy or the Lambeth Conference and embrace NFP. They will also not be happy once the Catholic diocesan ordinary (the bishop or archbishop) starts making claims on their church property a la Raymond Burke.<br /><br />The other issue is that I wonder if Benedict is willing to abandon Pope Leo XIII's pronouncement that the Roman Catholic Church regarded Anglican holy orders as invalid. Really, I don't think Rome had any grounds to make statements like that. The Anglicans were more than capable of deciding the validity of their own holy orders. <br /><br />I don't think the Anglicans will also get along well with the SSPX crowd.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-80612822684224218232009-10-20T10:49:33.157-06:002009-10-20T10:49:33.157-06:00Colleen,
"In the meantime the real Catholic p...Colleen,<br />"In the meantime the real Catholic progressive movement waits for the Emerging Church. The one that really is inclusive, has no addiction to clericalism, and has matured beyond the need to base it's identity in misogyny and homophobia, (poor scientific understanding, sacrifice of noted theologians, misunderstanding of sexual theology, bad fiscal administrators and etc., etc.) It can't come soon enough and maybe this latest pronouncement from the Vatican will hasten it's emergence."<br /><br />I very much share your view and hope for the future. I think that some Anglicans that try to change to a Roman church that refuses communion to those that use Birth Control will soon find displeasure about this issue alone. <br /><br />I think if anything, the more Christlike group with a better structure is in the 70% of the Episcopal people in the US and their cohorts in Canada and Europe. So I remain a Catholic that looks to the European Benedictine model of Church and clergy. I do feel the ground shaking but wonder, even believe that this development is little more than a tremor that pales what is to come as the current poor Roman Catholic Episcopate certainly has failed its people and its ability to understand or prescribe better ethical and Christ like behavior. The Bishops seem to completely forgotten about spirituality in their quest for power and money. We have looked for the intrinsic evil and we see it in ourselves that would support such corrupt leadership.<br /><br />dennisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com