tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post7041786935912976031..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Double Speak Or Deception?colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-73667039539097335102014-02-01T14:12:56.036-07:002014-02-01T14:12:56.036-07:00If history is a measure, it doesn't look promi...If history is a measure, it doesn't look promising. However, if the three lines of the children of Abraham could get on the same page of life, that could be a good beginning. Aren't we all claiming the one and same God, but under different names. Well, why then beat up on each other. Francis may yet help to bring about more convergence. But nations also have to get on the same page of life if politics and religion are to stop fighting. Religion and secularity are of a piece in the organic structure of nature/ life. Browse RELIGION & CIVILITY, the Primacy of Conscience.sylvesterpatsteffennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72347496836400601162014-02-01T13:21:22.770-07:002014-02-01T13:21:22.770-07:00Aren't all baptized 'anointed'?Aren't all baptized 'anointed'?Agni Ashwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-57168042410030275542014-02-01T11:57:38.790-07:002014-02-01T11:57:38.790-07:00Eve, the original male scapegoat. Sylvester, do y...Eve, the original male scapegoat. Sylvester, do you have much hope the West can be cured of Dominionism with it's angry vindictive male god and attendant male dominance?<br /><br /><br /><br />Well, maybe one man at a time.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-32345634066850078142014-02-01T11:54:28.104-07:002014-02-01T11:54:28.104-07:00We all pay rent so careerist "shepherds"...We all pay rent so careerist "shepherds" can live in our heads. We feel their "pain" when their ever-upward quest for "humble service" is delayed or denied. (I am sick of the "red-biretta-in-my-face-ministry" of Cardinal Timid Dolan.) I'm evicting these proud men.chasjaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-87421796259450274372014-02-01T11:53:38.905-07:002014-02-01T11:53:38.905-07:00True Sylvester, one of the stray thoughts going th...True Sylvester, one of the stray thoughts going through my head when Pope Francis quoted Paul VI in the above piece, was Paul VI's statement that the smoke of Satan had entered the Church. Diabolical actions indeed.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-62217764149125467342014-02-01T11:38:33.111-07:002014-02-01T11:38:33.111-07:00The Christian male "personality disorder"...The Christian male "personality disorder" is culturally engrained and roots back to the mythological belief that Eve is from the rib of Adam. Dominion belief is its theology, and it persists to this day.sylvesterpatsteffennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-7573015945391413932014-02-01T11:32:29.076-07:002014-02-01T11:32:29.076-07:00Laity need to hold hierarchy accountable to their ...Laity need to hold hierarchy accountable to their "anointing" as much as hierarchy presumes to hold laity accountable to theirs. I don't think Francis disagrees with this. (?) If "anointing" is pretentious, it is diabolic; there's been a lot of diabolic goings-on in Church hierarchy.sylvesterpatsteffennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-36164796475254216492014-02-01T11:01:36.530-07:002014-02-01T11:01:36.530-07:00Great statement Dennis. I also think living in su...Great statement Dennis. I also think living in such a unique male culture breeds it's own form of self blindness. If Francis and Benedict have one fundamental thing in common, it appears to me to be an inability to think outside the confines of their personal priesthood and that is a major liability.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-54933362414063364632014-02-01T10:57:51.200-07:002014-02-01T10:57:51.200-07:00Hopefully he will also recognize it didn't sto...Hopefully he will also recognize it didn't stop evolving with Vatican I.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-26954662101537832152014-02-01T10:56:56.479-07:002014-02-01T10:56:56.479-07:00You must have paid much attention to 'ethics&#...You must have paid much attention to 'ethics' of Wall Street in the last decade. Corruption is about the only direction Wall Street runs in.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-54450246977528075372014-02-01T10:55:16.684-07:002014-02-01T10:55:16.684-07:00Dennis, I agree that in some measure the laity hav...Dennis, I agree that in some measure the laity have to take back the Church, but I also know that's a tough grind against 1700 years of indoctrination. Some days I think it's ironic that the authoritarian structure itself is the fuel greasing that lay movement. I don't mean just clerical sexual abuse, but also the heirarchy's refusal to even consider changing the doctrine surrounding the celibate male priesthood.<br /><br />It's almost like they've gotten so delusional or disconnected that they prefer self immolation to change.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-59950366068081710842014-02-01T10:52:14.977-07:002014-02-01T10:52:14.977-07:00Love your last sentence.Love your last sentence.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-12155264484305351572014-02-01T10:50:50.953-07:002014-02-01T10:50:50.953-07:00You make a very pertinent point Fran. How does on...You make a very pertinent point Fran. How does one purge the priesthood of clericalism while telling the laity to think of bishops and priests as 'anointed ones'?<br /><br />Lots of us are now beginning to think that Francis plays to his immediate audience. Unfortunately he seems oblivious to how that can affect people not in his immediate audience.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-64561942284761976742014-02-01T10:40:53.551-07:002014-02-01T10:40:53.551-07:00While I don't hold out much, if any, hope that...While I don't hold out much, if any, hope that Francis will be a good shepherd for the Church, perhaps he's had an opportunity to learn that the Church did not begin at Vatican 2.Smartuckusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-60946666978858029102014-02-01T08:41:36.050-07:002014-02-01T08:41:36.050-07:00And this hypocrisy Fran is bred into the clerical ...And this hypocrisy Fran is bred into the clerical system. If there is one compelling truth in this world, it is that of change. We see it in a fetus in the womb and we see it in our own lives and minds. The idea that man can have infallible truth is incoherent and inconsistent with reality and assigns to men the idea that they can know too much of the mind of God. Educated critical thought sometimes questions that we know much of anything. The more we encircle knowledge the bigger it gets but so does the circumference of uncertainty grow.rdp46noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-36790615258608356932014-02-01T08:33:30.204-07:002014-02-01T08:33:30.204-07:00Dear Sylvester,
I think you are confusing malene...Dear Sylvester, <br /><br />I think you are confusing maleness with personality disorder. If we look at the arrogance, feelings of omnipotence, narcissism, prejudice, greed, envy, hypocrisy, authoritarian thought patterns, we see the delusions seen in disorders that have little to do with gender, but more to do with the non loving environment which they exist and the beliefs that are provoked. I see some of them who actually try to live as celibates (according to Sipe 80% or more don’t) as schizoid personalities and the others as borderline and or narcissistic. This does not exclude the possibilities of combinations of disorders. The reason we see this in so many clerics is the clerical system. It is further provoked by greedy fundamentalists and the orders that are looking for the ONE TRUTH. In order to survive in such a system, these disorders are manifest and encouraged by each member. It is the whole clerical system that reeks with unreality that causes the problem. As the People of God figure this out they simply must find different structure in their lives to attempt to remain at all “Christ-like or faithful good people. The clerical system as it exists has simply imploded and is not fixable. So I place my hope not in Francis or any pope or bishop but in those that are able to critically think and wish to live ethical lives. This does include a small minority of the clerks that I have known. Through my academic carrier, I have known many male leaders that are relatively free of personality disorder.rdp46noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46382189178542691812014-02-01T01:50:07.244-07:002014-02-01T01:50:07.244-07:00"Only recently, Pope Francis scolded males, i..."Only recently, Pope Francis scolded males, including male hierarchs, for their personal self-ignorance and -arrogance." Yes, he did. Now he is saying just the opposite, Sylvester. There is a serious problem here with him saying one thing one day and saying another that is completely the opposite of what he said on another day. And he's saying they are the "anointed ones." By Church laws they are anointed. How can they be considered truly anointed if they are ignorant and arrogant? We have a serious problem here then in understanding just who is anointed and are the anointed only those who are in the priesthood of the Catholic Church? They seem to think so and apparently, so does Pope Francis. <br /><br /><br />So, where does this get us to, if anywhere, in terms of bringing the light of Christ into the world if the Pope only considers these men he has to live with as the only one's to be empowered to bring that message into the world?Fran Schultznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-35518250545243842202014-02-01T01:33:14.497-07:002014-02-01T01:33:14.497-07:00Don't be too harsh? That's interesting to ...Don't be too harsh? That's interesting to hear you say, Sylvester. Perhaps you are being too harsh.Fran Schultznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-9160839429935656692014-02-01T00:23:15.418-07:002014-02-01T00:23:15.418-07:00" I tend to think of them as self selected ho..." I tend to think of them as self selected homophobic misogynists whose maturity level is too often suspect, whose spiritual maturity level is also questionable, and whose authority is constantly propped up by each other and ignored by those they supposedly serve and lead."<br /><br />I think we can with a lot of certainty pin point the sever character difficulties that so many Bishops have. I certainly have not seen an Opus Dei bishop or even a priest that does not suffer from arrogance and the feelings of superiority over the laity. What is so funny is that these men mostly lack true ability for good critical thought, but do not lack the self preservation instincts of greed and envy.<br /><br />I am not at all sure of Francis, but I gave up the idea that he would be able or willing to change much in the RCC. I feel that it is the job of the laity to marginalize the clergy by showing that they are clearly authoritarians without ANY authority over the People of God. I will not contribute to one bishops fund and decrease my contributions to other causes or normal maintenance by the amount of the Bishops tax. Most of the time that percentage of decrease is a guess because the lack of oneness of parish and diocese funds. I will never again contribute to organizations such as the Knights of Columbus and use The Salvation Army rather than St. Vincent de Paul because the SA is much more open about their finances. <br /><br />Some say all this makes me less than Catholic, I say it is holding clerical feet to the fire of honesty.rdp46noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-19084443871010230342014-02-01T00:14:20.837-07:002014-02-01T00:14:20.837-07:00Don't be too harsh if Francis gives a wink and...Don't be too harsh if Francis gives a wink and a nod to the boys he has to live with. It remains notwithstanding, vox populi, vox dei.sylvesterpatsteffennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-28549386348296563302014-02-01T00:08:47.236-07:002014-02-01T00:08:47.236-07:00Be encouraged in the knowledge that hope is inform...Be encouraged in the knowledge that hope is informed in the two person characterization of every individual, male and female, even as the human brain is dialogic because of dual personal characterization.<br />Only recently, Pope Francis scolded males, including male hierarchs, for their personal self-ignorance and -arrogance. Male self-fixation is hard-wired in the misinformed ignorance of their personhood understanding, and like males of other species they are instinctively territorial and resistant to faith being exposed to and enlightened by reason.<br />Francis reaffirms the mutuality of "faith and reason" even while the aggressive male crow instinctively tries to drive off what he considers a threat, represented in the dove (enlightenment). I read Francis's comments here as insisting that the territory of the Church (also the benighted males peopling the hierarchy) remain open to faith and reason .Hierarchy, regardless of individuality, should be mindfully open and dialogic, for faith and reason mutually co-depend and interdepend even as do darkness and light.sylvesterpatsteffennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24367845061025588872014-01-31T20:36:10.184-07:002014-01-31T20:36:10.184-07:00Thank you, Colleen, for pointing out the deception...Thank you, Colleen, for pointing out the deception in his performance to date. He sure seems to be flip-flopping or having a bi-polar episode without meds. He was talking before as if he really did want reform in the priesthood & now he's giving the good ole boys a blessing over and above the entire body of Christ. Guess the idea of any reform went out the window with the peace doves that were attacked. <br /><br />Francis plays the part very well as a performer reformer and he's sounding more like just a conformer for the dead set against any reform. If he can play the liberal role card to win over the left & become popular while the same old characters carry on as before with renewed strength and vigor & no questions asked he is doing a great performance at deception.Fran Schultznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-22604323591508244102014-01-31T17:57:39.810-07:002014-01-31T17:57:39.810-07:00Certainly Latins aren't the most ethical of cu...Certainly Latins aren't the most ethical of cultures in their public/civic lives, but then why encourage millions of them to come to the US? Don't you think that will have a bad effect on the civic/political life of the US? Make the US as corrupt as Mexico or Guatemala or El Salvador?Fred Garvinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-40099621081488924392014-01-31T11:38:18.219-07:002014-01-31T11:38:18.219-07:00Yes, that "anointing" business with prie...Yes, that "anointing" business with priests and bishops rather loses meaning to me, considering the likes of Robert Finn and Shawn Ratigan and the bishop in Germany that is in the dog house for building the palace of Versailles to live in. Also, if you read the horrendous stories of clergy abuse on "Abuse Tracker", I think that the oil would have been better spent putting on a salad.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-16681039314870403402014-01-31T11:13:46.348-07:002014-01-31T11:13:46.348-07:00...just pick and choose what you like about cathol......just pick and choose what you like about catholic church doctrine and make up the rest as You see fit!monnoreply@blogger.com