tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post7056510779196713178..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Why Was There Very Little Mentioned About The Resurrection At WYD.colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-39544209303713318222011-08-22T22:22:09.112-06:002011-08-22T22:22:09.112-06:00I was not intending to write more but I see that t...I was not intending to write more but I see that the verifacation word is seeth!! It is interesting how we get some very interesting words here.rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-62158137787269372112011-08-22T22:20:46.500-06:002011-08-22T22:20:46.500-06:00Certainly Ratzinger ran the show during the last t...Certainly Ratzinger ran the show during the last ten years of JP II. I am sure there are other powerful and fearful figures in the curia. John XXIII tried hard to run his own show but have seen that there were too many fearful curial figures to control.rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23373617027103466842011-08-22T19:59:55.849-06:002011-08-22T19:59:55.849-06:00I think Benedict is content being a sort of father...I think Benedict is content being a sort of fatherly figurehead pope. I think someone or someone elses are actually running the show. I am still trying to figure out why no one in the Vatican curia ever gets fired and no one is allowed to criticize the curia.<br /><br />Something is just down right rotten about the whole thing, and it has been for a very very long time.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-8595489353123020832011-08-22T19:25:57.124-06:002011-08-22T19:25:57.124-06:00Dear Invictus,
Even Ratzinger’s own brother was...Dear Invictus, <br /><br />Even Ratzinger’s own brother was quoted as believing him too fearful to be pope. All of the sanctioned theologians and his own inability to converse with those that practice embryology point to fear. If not why all the sanctions? Why not sit and discuss theology with the major theologians of day and discuss with scientists what the embryologists are finding. All he can do is condemn others ideas. Seems very fearful to me. I think those that defend this man are also enablers of his inability to get a handle on his own sense of tyrannical action as manifested by the many church scandals. He says he listens to the opinions of others yet he seems way too fearful to engage them. And this comment is from a man that has had to be on life saving drugs and pain medications for a few years. <br /><br />So yes we also should look in the mirror and not be to frightened to engage in what we see. That includes Benedict, me and you, Invictus. It seems easier to some to make simple accusations rather than to engage. Is that true of you Invictus? Sometimes on this board you have engaged other times you come up with simple accusations. <br /><br />There are many who see Benedict as a very frail tyrant who believes in his sense of deluded grandiosity makes him powerful or infallible. It is not just me that see him that way. It is many in the secular and Catholic academic communities. This sense of grandiosity it is also manifested by the his poor Episcopal appointments. It is he more than any other person alive today that is causing the implosion in the leadership in the Roman Catholic Church. You might try asking the Irish about it!!rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-4980265136731188382011-08-22T11:24:47.039-06:002011-08-22T11:24:47.039-06:00rdp,
A dead heart is a cynical one. Be careful, r...rdp,<br /><br />A dead heart is a cynical one. Be careful, rdp, that in criticising the Holy Father in those terms you're not - in fact - murmuring into a mirror.<br /><br />Read his work, it's neither dead nor fearful.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-28583724844876663402011-08-22T11:18:36.893-06:002011-08-22T11:18:36.893-06:00"Colkoch,
Well, so long as it's very clea..."Colkoch,<br />Well, so long as it's very clear that you're taking a narrow reading, rather than claiming to represent Pope Benedict's overall view on things."<br /><br />It seems that as Pope Benedict and Cardinal Ratzinger, this man like the Egyptian God, Seth, went through a very narrowing metamorphosis to a more deadened idea of humanity and The God spirit.<br /><br />I would love to hear more of the ideas of the young Father Ratzinger, but it seems the fear in his heart as deadened them. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-76847952787051263072011-08-22T10:54:57.208-06:002011-08-22T10:54:57.208-06:00I'd have to refer you, Anon, to:
http://www.am...I'd have to refer you, Anon, to:<br />http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0898709628/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=usedInvictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-79889608351427578662011-08-22T10:53:46.656-06:002011-08-22T10:53:46.656-06:00Perhaps its the Pope's Augustinian theological...Perhaps its the Pope's Augustinian theological heritage.<br /><br />Eastern Orthodoxy has never quite understood why Western Christianity has had so much emphasis on the "sacrifice on the cross" and so little on the Resurrection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68337291482497011742011-08-22T10:26:32.734-06:002011-08-22T10:26:32.734-06:00Colkoch,
Well, so long as it's very clear that...Colkoch,<br />Well, so long as it's very clear that you're taking a narrow reading, rather than claiming to represent Pope Benedict's overall view on things.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72933299431257581992011-08-22T10:11:23.451-06:002011-08-22T10:11:23.451-06:00Rdp,
Yes, we are all on The Way; that is why we a...Rdp,<br /><br />Yes, we are all on The Way; that is why we are a pilgrim people.<br /><br />Blessings,<br /><br />Searchersearchernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-41542361836617701202011-08-22T09:37:39.070-06:002011-08-22T09:37:39.070-06:00Searcher, Jesus pointed The Way, but we as humanit...Searcher, Jesus pointed The Way, but we as humanity can only attempt to approach it. It is a standard that is very difficult. One only lies to him or herself when we do not understand that no one is good enough to not need more daily understanding from the Spirit.rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-20527409154018297792011-08-22T09:33:06.471-06:002011-08-22T09:33:06.471-06:00Well said, Molly! dennisWell said, Molly! dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-43412720961905656312011-08-22T09:28:20.715-06:002011-08-22T09:28:20.715-06:00Dear rdp & all,
I just think it is hard for f...Dear rdp & all,<br /><br />I just think it is hard for folks to accept God's free gift bec in <br />some way & to varying degrees we are each<br />trapped in the abuse cycle.<br /><br />I have thought for a long time that the good news of the<br />gospel is that we can choose to move along the way of not being part of the abuse cycle. That Jesus took this<br />cycle & broke it once & for all. It is just that we r not there yet, that is free from this evil cycle.Searchernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-7436883877369980882011-08-22T06:42:46.236-06:002011-08-22T06:42:46.236-06:00I think that ignoring the resurrection is ignoring...I think that ignoring the resurrection is ignoring hope. And hope is all about the good that is not yet present but is longed for. So the Pope seems to be in darkness, lost in his pain, mistaking it for some universal manifestation of the truth of Christ---Molly Roachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-1397873142503615082011-08-22T06:40:56.310-06:002011-08-22T06:40:56.310-06:00@invictus
Retract your last comment to rpd46 and ...@invictus<br /><br />Retract your last comment to rpd46 and apologize. <br /><br />Dennis is right. The RC church has long promoted mortification of the flesh. In recent times the practice is most associated with Opus Dei. It has been widely reported that JP2 was a flagellant and would often sleep on the floor. ( http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/01/pope-john-paul-ii-flagellant.html ) It cannot be denied that whipping, beating, and cutting are RC practices. Denial of the body includes more mainstream ascetic practices such as fasting, denying sexual pleasure, and other forms of sacrifice and/or penance. <br /><br />I once entered a "Catholic" church in Florida and was surprised to see there were no kneelers. (Perhaps because of the age of the parishioners, all retired people, there was no kneeling.) More than that I was surprised by the protestant practice of providing cushions on seats. We pre-Vatican 2 children were trained to kneel for extended periods of time on hard floors and admonished to "offer up" the "discomfort" or pain. <br /><br />A few years ago Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" provoked some considerable discussion about this very issue. Here's a link to several articles about the movie relevant to today's discussion here: <br />http://www.thetablet.co.uk/page/thepassionofthechrist <br /><br />(Note the prominence of the Opus Dei and Legionaries of Christ.) <br /><br />I am no expert on the psycho-social aspects of BDSM (Defined variously as Bondage & Dominance/Submission, Sadism/Masochism) Many of their practices are related to the RC practices of the mortification of the flesh. (Here's a link to a Canadian supplier of whips to both the BDSM and religious communities: http://www.leatherbeaten.com/Penitents.html ) You can read what they say about the two. (Incidentally I wonder what that Venn diagram looks like.) <br /><br />Searcher's remarks and rpd46's reply ring true to me. <br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46381030239423138552011-08-22T06:06:42.995-06:002011-08-22T06:06:42.995-06:00Invictus, I was limiting my observation to Benedic...Invictus, I was limiting my observation to Benedict's addresses for this year's World Youth Day. In his distant past, before his conversion to channelized traditionalism, he wrote some truly thought provoking stuff. Of his latest efforts, Caritas Inveritate has been by far his most thought provoking encyclical.<br /><br />Dennis, the sado/masochistic dynamic is very traditional in Catholicism as we both know. Mel Gibson certainly got that tradition in spades. Passion of the Christ bordered on sado porn as did the Mayan flick he did later==whose title escapes me at the moment.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-44489209201708959032011-08-22T02:45:10.314-06:002011-08-22T02:45:10.314-06:00Invictus,
I mostly remember a very fearful Cardin...Invictus,<br /><br />I mostly remember a very fearful Cardinal Ratzinger that wanted to censor so much new thought and new beginnings of theologians and scientists. Indeed, to so many of us the ideas of Benedict seem deadened and narrow minded. <br /> <br />That brings to mind “Star Wars “ when Yoda did not want to train the young Anican as a jet eye knight because he was too fearful. Fearfulness- the dark side it leads!rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-82882233280543314712011-08-22T02:37:00.832-06:002011-08-22T02:37:00.832-06:00Tim,
As some one suffering from Chronic disease, ...Tim,<br /><br />As some one suffering from Chronic disease, pain and sacrifice does happen to all of us, but this experience may well allow growth and personal resurrection depending on how we use these very real hurts and feelings to help others so that they may go on either with or without you. I remember being very ill and my wife complained that I had become grouchy. It was true and sometimes unavoidable, but she was giving me a clue that I could do better and show more liveliness in my body that was close to dying. Her comments gave me hope that generated more energy to try harder not to burden others.<br /><br />Yes, Colleen, in death we can not take any of our acquired toys with us. When we are near death, we wonder why we spent so much time acquiring so many things. Experience, however, has always been my best teacher. How to move on and make the best of a situation. This is living Resurrection. My wife now tells me that I have the lives of a cat. I hope that I can only have the liveliness that I need to love my family and friends and attempt to help them understand more about themselves and life so that indeed, I can continue to learn and understand more of what makes liveliness tick!rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-61281617839621254182011-08-22T02:25:21.035-06:002011-08-22T02:25:21.035-06:00rdp,
Lay off the drugs, man.rdp,<br /><br />Lay off the drugs, man.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-45327028323465803142011-08-22T02:23:55.590-06:002011-08-22T02:23:55.590-06:00http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0898709628/...http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0898709628/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=usedInvictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-2142152055899145972011-08-22T02:22:08.515-06:002011-08-22T02:22:08.515-06:00Searcher,
When I read your presentation, I thoug...Searcher, <br /><br />When I read your presentation, I thought a lot about painful perversions. How they may or not seem to feel good but the end result is supposed to be the exhilaration of pleasurable orgasm. This is of course is sadism and is ever present in our world. Then to have pain would be normal and it causes a pleasant exhilaration to know that the celebrant of the mass is indeed representing the torture of Jesus. We then come out of the celebration after all the "Latin hymns of Alleluia., and we feel good and exhilarated that we are somehow good people. Yet what have we done that is good. This is simply an unconscious representation of sadism. It hurts so good! Do it to me again make it rougher hurt me and I will be exhilarated. I will feel the pleasure of what must be "love." <br /><br />Of course sadism has nothing to do with love. At best it causes the exhilaration that we get from ridding a roller coaster. We might say that the sexual act between lovers causes this same exhilaration but my answer to that is sometimes! Sadism wants exhilaration of the orgasm "all the time," and a sadistic person does not care who or how much he or she hurts others to achieve this phenomena of pleasure. <br />This is the unconscious root that Church leaders are taking when they do not freely and often recognize the new beginnings we get by the experience of resurrection. The ability for personal growth and development comes from the actions of new beginnings -- taking another approach. An infallible mindset has very little use for new understandings because they destroy the powerful delusions that mistakes in understanding are not made in every generation. When one paints oneself in the corner of infallibility, it is very hard to understand that the Spirit approaches man with new understandings each and every day. <br /><br />Clerics may unconsciously have some understanding that sadism causes harm, so they may falsely attribute it to most new ideas because there is a misguided belief that we all are as constantly under the influence of sadism as they are. So the new thoughts of Astronomers, or embryologists, particularly those that are in disagreement from past “infallible” belief become evil and sadistic. This displacement may well be a psychological projection of a clerical mindset that forgets about the hopefulness of the Resurrection. There can be no new understanding, the Holy Spirit is only here to explain any problem understanding the old infallible thoughts to the Episcopacy. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-15489064484763538732011-08-22T02:03:39.081-06:002011-08-22T02:03:39.081-06:00Perhaps you're not drawing on a wide enough ra...Perhaps you're not drawing on a wide enough range of his work. <br />'God is Near Us' is affordable and worthwhile and refers very much to the resurrection and its significance. It's by Pope Benedict XVI when he was just Cardinal Ratzinger, and it's very good.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-81996475360398792922011-08-21T19:17:44.662-06:002011-08-21T19:17:44.662-06:00Tim, I have a teacher who says what you're des...Tim, I have a teacher who says what you're describing is not really sacrifice it's growing wise to the silly notions of what our egos have been taught to value. That's why death is the best teacher--at least in the sense of fully getting you can't take your ipod collection with you. Or however that goes.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-40483936991177669612011-08-21T19:12:07.640-06:002011-08-21T19:12:07.640-06:00But love does require sacrifice, after a fashion. ...But love does require sacrifice, after a fashion. To have compassion, one must abandon the safe haven of self-absorption and come down from the mountain fortress of privilege to meet those who may not be 'worthy'. You must recognize that others have lives and value which are independent of your own and even accept the possibility that you have erred and harmed others.<br /><br />Pain and sacrifice indeed for a people who base their own self-worth on inerrancy and moral superiority.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04200045196217644013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-20138470988788821812011-08-21T19:03:20.137-06:002011-08-21T19:03:20.137-06:00Good thoughts Searcher. I'm hoping rdp will c...Good thoughts Searcher. I'm hoping rdp will comment on your observations about the abuse cycle. He's really wise with the ins and outs of that particular cycle. <br /><br />You are right about this abuse dynamic and I found myself reflecting on the same thing the more of Benedict's addresses I read. What sort of God does this whole notion of sacrifice and the redemptive notion of pain and suffering actually describe?colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.com