tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post7497563956412578653..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Catholic Fantasy Collides With Reality: Bill Donohue On 'Lying About Priests".colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-86308521908213228752011-09-14T20:51:38.548-06:002011-09-14T20:51:38.548-06:00Jmkelley and ratbiter, thanks for these comments. ...Jmkelley and ratbiter, thanks for these comments. They are truth.<br /><br />Here's a true story. I'm sitting around a campfire at a Sundance, and I have the opportunity to ask the Sundance leader what is his understanding of 'two spirited'. He's silent for awhile, not unusual for Natives, and finally says: "you in the white western world call them homosexuals. As if sex was all this was about. Now in our world that has become 'winkte' and it's sort of our expression for your 'fag' word. In the old days, before the whiteman and his Christianity, we saw 'two spirited' as a bridge between worlds. Not just men and women, which they are, but also between dimensions." At this point this elder looks at me very seriously, "Why do you think there are so many gay Catholic priests? It's not just because a celibate male culture is easy for them to hide in, it's because they sense their true calling. You white people are so stupid sometimes. You don't understand sex and spirituality at all and you make legal contracts out of relationships."colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-28052409510160961752011-09-14T14:31:53.045-06:002011-09-14T14:31:53.045-06:00“They ask me to bless them,” Judge said. “But the ...“They ask me to bless them,” Judge said. “But the truth is I feel blessed by them.”<br /><br />That is such a great thing to say; it's very moving, because IMO it tells a lot about him. <br /><br />"Fr Mychal Judge is a saint, and he is most definitely a gay saint."<br /><br />And his gayness is significant - what it is not, is an obstacle to his being recognised as a Saint. The reason for that is, that God's grace takes us we are, and works through as we are - which in the case of some of us, means working through those who are gay men or lesbians, as the gays and lesbians we are. If as a gay man he responded to Christ's grace, then it is arguably a doctrinal error - see the CCC 2359 - to suggest he cannot be a Saint. And if a Saint was gay, why should that be ignored ? St. Paul says what needs saying, in 2 Corinthians 12 - <br /><br />http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2012.%207-10&version=NIV<br /><br />If there is any error in that - what are the errors ?Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-71102710801970605742011-09-13T21:49:04.442-06:002011-09-13T21:49:04.442-06:00Bill Donohue’s comments are a case of “don’t bothe...Bill Donohue’s comments are a case of “don’t bother me with FACTS I don’t want to believe” -- especially if the FACTS demonstrate that a man can be holy, heroic, and unashamedly homosexual.<br /><br />The evidence that Father Mychal Judge joyfully self-identified as gay is irrefutable, and includes his own handwritten journal entries.<br /><br />Over the past week, we’ve seen Roman fundamentalists and hierarchy take various stances toward Fr. Mychal's gay self-identity. A few still deny that he was gay. Others, unable to credibly deny the conclusive evidence, just ignore or downplay it.<br /><br />But some are now claiming that Mychal's chaste celibacy stemmed from his "agreement" with official church doctrine on homosexuality; they claim that Mychal's celibacy is a model for gays to resist "same sex attraction".<br />See especially p.2 of this piece at Catholic.org:<br />http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=42759&page=2<br /><br />These statements are absolutely false, but expect to hear them repeated in debates about Mychal Judge.<br /><br />For the record, these are the <b>facts:</b> Mychal chose celibacy to honor his priestly vows and to not distract from his ministry. But he still openly disagreed with official church teaching, and he blessed and supported committed gay relationships. All this is well documented in the Daly and Ford biographies, in the Saint of 9/11 film, and in these definitive articles on the Saint Mychal Judge website: A Gay Saint in fact, & Mychal embraced his homosexuality as a gift of God at:<br />http://SaintMychalJudge.blogspot.com/2007/03/reserved-4.html <br /><br />The increasing nastiness and outright lies of fundamentalists is in direct reaction to the fact that they are losing the war on homosexuality. Two-thirds of Catholics in the pews support marriage equality or civil unions, according to every survey. Rome does not speak for the Church, the Ecclesia, on this issue. Remember, "The darkest hour is just before the dawn."<br /><br /><i>"It's wonderful! Look at who we are as gay people as this moment in history, as being a gift for the church, to be agents of change both in church and society."</i> +Mychal Judge<br /><br />Saint Mychal, pray for us.jmKelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10552857462873824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72553118127757827722011-09-12T15:24:22.884-06:002011-09-12T15:24:22.884-06:00To Mychal Judge I would say: may you live forever,...To Mychal Judge I would say: may you live forever, and happy feast day on 9/11!<br />My best friend forever was Father Robert. He was ordained as a non-Roman Catholic priest. He could not be ordained in the Roman church because he refused to base his priesthood on a lie and he was gay, gay, gay! Get it? Gay!<br />He also died in 2001 after a long and painful illness. A few days before his death, he suffered a devastating fall and head wound. He bled all over his notebooks. I still have them, carefully preserved, although I still can't bring myself to look at those terrible stains.<br />To Bill Donohue, I'd say, I have a first class relic in my house. Try and top that, you creep!Translynxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24533838095894989262011-09-12T14:56:16.597-06:002011-09-12T14:56:16.597-06:00Who is funding Bill Donahue? Who is hiding behind...Who is funding Bill Donahue? Who is hiding behind his outrageous discourse? Who is using him for cover?Molly Roachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-56155385382563461282011-09-12T11:10:22.518-06:002011-09-12T11:10:22.518-06:00I hate what Bill Donohue is doing to the Church. L...I hate what Bill Donohue is doing to the Church. Last week, even NPR mentioned the Catholic League as being opposed to an iman being on the altar at an Ecumenical event commemorating 911. They did not mention that the Catholic League does not speak for the Church nor did they identify them as an ultra-conservative group. I suppose that the casual listener would chalk it up as another example of xenophobia in Catholics.Mary H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18319596057433636243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-16984205370660742002011-09-11T06:18:14.993-06:002011-09-11T06:18:14.993-06:00Colleen, thank you for writing this and raising ou...Colleen, thank you for writing this and raising our awareness about Fr. Mychal Judge. Thank you for Enlightened Catholicism.<br /><br />I want to affirm your statement that Fr. Mychal is a saint and a gay saint. It seems the perfect time to have Fr. Mychal as one of our heavenly heroes who is a priest and gay. Still, in our time as you say: “In order to serve Truth you must not tell it about yourself.” With the openness and growing acceptance of lesbian and gay persons in our society, it is still a struggle for many including priests how to emerge from that closet. Fr. Mychal Judge is an example for all those folks who struggle with that question. It is a struggle because there are people like Bill Donohoue who keep whipping up the hatred and lies about gay people.<br /><br />I like the article you cite referencing the book by Michael Daly clearly stating Fr. Mychal Judge was gay. I particularly like Daly’s quote that Fr. Mychal did not have time for hate and that he led by example. Daly writes that in March Mychal would walk up Fifth Avenue in New York with the Irish and in June he would walk back down Fifth Avenue in the Gay Pride Parade. <br /><br />It doesn’t take a pope to declare a saint. I will also add Fr. Mychal Judge to my personal canon of saints.wild hairhttp://www.wildhair95.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68325800547089553762011-09-11T06:15:51.391-06:002011-09-11T06:15:51.391-06:00Colleen, thank you for writing this and raising ou...Colleen, thank you for writing this and raising our awareness about Fr. Mychal Judge. Thank you for Enlightened Catholicism.<br /><br />I want to affirm your statement that Fr. Mychal is a saint and a gay saint. It seems the perfect time to have Fr. Mychal as one of our heavenly heroes who is a priest and gay. Still, in our time as you say: “In order to serve Truth you must not tell it about yourself.” With the openness and growing acceptance of lesbian and gay persons in our society, it is still a struggle for many including priests how to emerge from that closet. Fr. Mychal Judge is an example for all those folks who struggle with that question. It is a struggle because there are people like Bill Donohoue who keep whipping up the hatred and lies about gay people.<br /><br />I like the article you cite referencing the book by Michael Daly clearly stating Fr. Mychal Judge was gay. I particularly like Daly’s quote that Fr. Mychal did not have time for hate and that he led by example. Daly writes that in March Mychal would walk up Fifth Avenue in New York with the Irish and in June he would walk back down Fifth Avenue in the Gay Pride Parade. <br /><br />It doesn’t take a pope to declare a saint. I will also add Fr. Mychal Judge to my personal canon of saints.wild hairhttp://www.wildhair95.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46246282876615706322011-09-10T22:10:38.302-06:002011-09-10T22:10:38.302-06:00It may be butterfly, that poor Bill needs to exper...It may be butterfly, that poor Bill needs to experience a zing of some honest to God love. Which Fr Judge had more than the usual human share, but then Fr Judge spent a significant amount of time dealing with his personal demons that prevented his knowing the love of God.<br /><br />I don't know that Donohue has the courage to walk Mychal Judge's path. Lots of Catholics don't.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-50275311635085826872011-09-10T21:40:58.370-06:002011-09-10T21:40:58.370-06:00Poor Bill Donohue. He really does think that God i...Poor Bill Donohue. He really does think that God is very narrow minded, doesn't know what He is doing and is embarrassingly stingy love-wise, just like him!!<br /><br />Thanks for the great post Colleen. I appreciate all the comments here too.<br /><br />Butterfly<br />Word verification is zinglect, quite possibly for the zing that is missing in action, dormant, fallow, or asleep in Bill Donohue's Vaticanized intellect. Otherwise known as neglect of what I'll call the zing factor which is the guidance from the Holy Spirit that teaches wisdom and discernment.<br /><br />Bill Donahue sounds like he needs the zing factor real bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-76337039282551370402011-09-10T21:12:51.568-06:002011-09-10T21:12:51.568-06:00I'm not split jack, that pairing is downright ...I'm not split jack, that pairing is downright awful. That a bishop of the Church would give Donohue that kind of credibility is also obscene--not to mention shamele$$.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-33687581287217702062011-09-10T21:09:01.435-06:002011-09-10T21:09:01.435-06:00Abp. Dolan of New York posted "Why we need th...Abp. Dolan of New York posted "Why we need the Catholic League", a glowing veneration of Bill Donohue on his blog on 12/16/10. A bit strangely, he quoted denouncements of Donohue by others such as “blowhard,” “a self-appointed censor,” “right wing publicity mill,” a “bully,” and “American Taliban” before getting to the "Keep at it, Bill! We need you!" <br />http://blog.archny.org/?p=931 <br />Commenters appear strongly split on whether the continuing Dolan-Donahue pairing is great or awful.Jack Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-29347873641918494962011-09-10T20:11:53.147-06:002011-09-10T20:11:53.147-06:00William Donohue is a ridiculous embarrassment. Th...William Donohue is a ridiculous embarrassment. The television show Southpark got him so right. <br /><br />Unfortunately some people may seem him and think he speaks for the church. I wonder how many of the hundreds that have seen him on TV have been turned off to the church because of him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68327532667298729792011-09-10T18:07:20.220-06:002011-09-10T18:07:20.220-06:00I agree Mychal Judge is a saint & a martyr to...I agree Mychal Judge is a saint & a martyr to the love of Christ. He died serving his Lord & deserves elevation to sainthood as much as any other martyr. But his cause will be set aside like that of Oscar Romero & Sr. Dorothy Stang.Searchernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-86362243347030238902011-09-10T17:47:48.836-06:002011-09-10T17:47:48.836-06:00Colleen, this is a wonderful posting. Thank you fo...Colleen, this is a wonderful posting. Thank you for taking on the shameless lies of Mr. Donohue. It's interesting that folks who are so intent to denounce secular culture as Godless and resistant to sanctity can't see conspicuous holiness staring them in the face, when it comes in a guise they don't want to accept.William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-76540387884279900492011-09-10T14:12:12.780-06:002011-09-10T14:12:12.780-06:00Mychal Judge was obviously a fine, loving, faithfu...Mychal Judge was obviously a fine, loving, faithful follower of Christ.I have friends who became acquainted with him as a colleague of one of them when Judge was assigned to the Albany NY area. These "more Catholic than the Pope Catholics" admired and loved him for his personal traits and for his energetic and loving ministry to everyone. Finding out he was a gay man did not change this (and they are way not friendly to gays). The ridiculous and embarrassing Donahue should give it a rest.Winifred Hollowaynoreply@blogger.com