tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post7641920295465714191..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: What Should A Gay Catholic Do May Not Mean Just Chaste Suffering In The Closetcolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-53362164118124500282011-06-18T22:52:10.338-06:002011-06-18T22:52:10.338-06:00I know it's a bit late to say this, but, about...I know it's a bit late to say this, but, about this:<br /><br />""Who amongst we heterosexuals", my mythical priest says, "could honor God in this way, when there is so little offered by the Earthly Church or society itself, in compensation. Truly our gay brothers and sisters should be exalted for their generous personal sacrifices and sublime obedience to God's mysterious call for this singularly marginalized life. The grace and blessings these lives must bring to the Church through this difficult personal sacrifice, this inique living of the way of the Cross, must be many." Then my priest says, "Let us thank and acknowledge our dear gay brothers and sisters for their incredible and faith filled sacrifice. Please stand my fellow gay Catholics that we may finally acknowledge your lives.""<br /><br />- a video on YT says almost exactly that. <br /><br />We're great - as long as we are invisible LOL. <br /><br />I was looking for Fr. Martin's article in "America" - thanks to your post, I have it.Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-80047827118522856622009-11-17T06:27:37.637-07:002009-11-17T06:27:37.637-07:00Or they will finally see all the hypocrisy after t...Or they will finally see all the hypocrisy after they or someone they love are destroyed by it.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-13254004983300870462009-11-17T01:39:15.598-07:002009-11-17T01:39:15.598-07:00Thanks all for this discussion. Colleen, We all h...Thanks all for this discussion. Colleen, We all have the priesthood of Baptism. The "Sacrament" called ordination is superfluous. The consecration of the Eucharist needs only a leader selected by the Christian prayer group. Do we need other political leadership, yes. It does not make sense to have a consecrated Episcopacy appointed from above- not at all. <br /><br />The real problem for us as the People of God is with such poor current leadership, how do we as a group educate our young children? So many young cradle Catholics parents, are using Protestant Churches. Others are teaching by their own example, but others are entirely lost! This is another sin of this leadership. Many well meaning people are lost. Certainly the ones that pay attention to these men are lost, but there is another group that have no good ideas about the conveyance of moral and ethical issues. <br /><br />This is the work of a Christian community one that our Bishops are incapable of conveying especially in their insistence on self omniscience and omnipotence. Many people young and old who idealize the current leadership will end up seeing all its failures. It will continue to happen as people see the lies and begin to understand that these men are finite just as every one else. <br />dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-90421598678652572122009-11-16T10:19:37.056-07:002009-11-16T10:19:37.056-07:00Joe, the violence being done to individual conscie...Joe, the violence being done to individual consciences by the constant call from our bishops to form them exactly with church doctrine is becoming amusing.<br /><br />If Jesus had their definition of a well formed conscience we'd all be Jewish.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-22196133306900196182009-11-15T21:27:14.293-07:002009-11-15T21:27:14.293-07:00I see that the wise and mature Fr Geoff Farrow was...I see that the wise and mature Fr Geoff Farrow was expelled from the ministry for refusing to comply with the directive of his bishop that he tell them how to vote on Prop. 8. These gangster bishops have no scruples about 1. doing violence to individual conscience, 2. preempting the freedom of American voters, and using the pulpit as a political weapon, 3. acting on vicious unprincipled homophobic fear, 4. rejecting priests who are wiser and more pastorally seasoned then they are, just when they need advice and guidance on how to handle the young and vulnerable gay faithful.Joehttp://josephsoleary.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-48458040246686508012009-11-15T17:13:13.119-07:002009-11-15T17:13:13.119-07:00TheraP, I agree completely that we need to make re...TheraP, I agree completely that we need to make real distinctions between gay and the right wing definition of gay life style.<br /><br />For a fascinating take on how the same kinds of smears would play out for heterosexuals, try this link:<br /><br />http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,015.htm<br /><br /><br />Bill, thanks for the comment. Until the hierarchy faces it's internal cancer there will be no such thing as a universal church. The original maladaption may have been a clericalism based on empire and patriarchy, but it has metastisised in a very specific, unique, and pathological way.<br /><br />It maybe that the only way this pathology can be healed is radical surgery--cut out the sacrament of ordination all together.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-44969141390941177892009-11-15T15:15:00.132-07:002009-11-15T15:15:00.132-07:00I tried to register there and leave a comment. So...I tried to register there and leave a comment. So I'll leave it here. <br /><br />Could we please differentiate between "gay" and the so-called "gay lifestyle"?<br /><br />It always annoys me when gays are stigmatized due to the promiscuous sexual behavior (of some) - when for so many years they were denied normal "out of the closet" longterm relationships? What were they supposed to do?<br /><br />Goodness, if people had been forbidden to have sex at all, but then they ended up fathering children, some of those men would be called Father by everyone - except their children! All sorts of weirdness occurs when things have to be kept secret - when everyone has to pretend they simply don't exist!TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68352527250326574192009-11-15T14:45:34.786-07:002009-11-15T14:45:34.786-07:00This should be an interesting week. The gay neigh...This should be an interesting week. The gay neighbor who died yesterday (see link below), unbeknownst to me, was apparently Catholic. And his funeral will take place at a nearby Catholic Church. I wonder about the priest who will say the Mass. Will he detect the likely gay-laden attendance? Is he perhaps gay himself? Plus, the vast majority of neighbors right around us are also Catholics! Not all of us belong to parishes. Disaffection of one sort or another, recent roll-back of liberalism in the diocese - and falling attendance due to the sexual abuse scandals. But what a socio-political-religious gathering that may be! With so much unsaid beneath the surface. So much unsayable, perhaps. <br /><br />My post about that is on your sidebar. But here's the link - for when that post falls off the rec'd list:<br /><br />http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/11/puzzlement.php<br /><br />I have a post in me, I think, that may examine the psychodynamics of the church's efforts to control sex. (We'll see. I never quite know.)TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65387587804590115572009-11-15T11:59:41.002-07:002009-11-15T11:59:41.002-07:00"The gay question will not go away, and the b..."The gay question will not go away, and the battle will get sicker and sicker because gayness has become the metaphor for the cancer of the cultural power of male heterosexual domination over the feminine."<br /><br />Wow--absolutely powerful, Colleen. I can't begin to tell you how valuable this statement seems to me in so many respects. I hope lots of people will spend lots of time analyzing its implications in the days ahead.<br /><br />Gay people, gay lives, gay brothers and sisters as metaphor: yes. As a metaphor for a cancer in church and society: yes.<br /><br />But you ironically subvert that use of the cancer metaphor and show that the real cancer is in the heart of an institution that uses some of its own children as metaphors for the cancer it won't face in itself.<br /><br />Yes.William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.com