tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post9164206787539985798..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Is It Lay Passivity Or A Self Imposed Evacuation Zone?colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24555980897923542322011-03-21T13:40:59.720-06:002011-03-21T13:40:59.720-06:00It strikes me that the article contains a tad bit ...It strikes me that the article contains a tad bit of victim-blaming. Because the vast majority of the laity has been victimized by the clergy and the culture. Maybe not sexually in most cases. But certainly spiritually. Most of the laity don't realize it. Much like abused children, they have no experience of a healthy relationship to either the clergy or to God.<br /><br />Sure, some of the people stand up and say no more. They are nearly heroic in nature. In order to do so, each individual must almost completely reorganize his/her own worldview. If those individuals, having gone through this process continue to facilitate the clergy, those people might be somewhat accountable in terms of facilitating the abusers. <br /><br />But the Church almost from the beginning starts individuals down the road to Fear of God and loss/damnation of his/her own eternal soul. The article mentions this, but IMHO it dismisses the enormity of the issue. Yes, the Church charms with the good news that God love you. But try to step outside a certain boundary and they are right back to excommunication leading directly to damnation no questions asked.<br /><br />I sometimes feel like an ill-literate Catholic because I've not read much of the writings of the greats like Augustine. I tried to read one of his books. I just could not stomach the constant 'I'm so worthless and evil; God is so pure and holy there is no possible reason why God would love me'. It sounded too much like what my annulled spouse used to tell me constantly when I was in that relationship... To hear Augustine honored as a doctor of the church is akin to an abuser being held up to society has a good example of a near-perfect human being. Even the heroes held up by the church seem to be there to enforce the cycle of abuse.<br /><br />The parallels are there, over and over again. <br /><br />Sure, we all should know better than to accept abuse. Women should know better than to go back to an abusive spouse. Abused children who go on to have their own children should know better than to abuse their children. But when we don't know better, when we don't have a healthy model to lean upon, it is hard to create something from scratch.<br />VeronicaT'Pelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497973041430354008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-31421340154730734772011-03-21T11:46:15.409-06:002011-03-21T11:46:15.409-06:00One clever solution to the conundrum of collection...One clever solution to the conundrum of collections I've come across is pooling resources--maybe in the parking lot:)--and directly pay the operating costs of the parish. That way diocesan taxes are avoided. Cash is as cash does so to speak.<br /><br />I kind of wonder if enough Catholics opted for the parking lot parallel church kind of thing if that wouldn't have a major effect on the authorities in a way the passive don't donate thing does. Real meaningful rebellion always makes an understandable visual statement.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-58945098529315750092011-03-21T10:04:54.077-06:002011-03-21T10:04:54.077-06:00I agree that the only thing these clowns will unde...I agree that the only thing these clowns will understand is empty coffers, but I think the vast majority of Catholics are okay with their local clergy, so they contribute on Sunday believing that all the money is going for electrical bills and the doughnuts. Every diocese I know taxes Sunday collections. In Chicago, it's around 10%. I think if Catholics knew this, their giving would decrease dramatically. I also noted how in the recent Chicago Archdiocesan Appeal, the pitch was how much the poor are helped. I'm almost sure, though, that those funds are also used to pay for anti-gay marriage propaganda. Dioceses bundle these things and then don't talk about the parts they know are not popular. Most critically, however, it's the (again) lack of transparency that's most insidious.kevin57https://www.blogger.com/profile/01681985465980196347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-58026698953719745022011-03-21T10:04:39.997-06:002011-03-21T10:04:39.997-06:00Archbishop Dolan's interview with Marley Safer...Archbishop Dolan's interview with Marley Safer on 60 Minutes this past weekend was quite enlightening. In the Archbishop's mind there are only true believers completely obedient to the magisterium OR there are "visitors" who ask questions that disturb him. He made it clear that he is quite relieved when the "visitors" (which include Safer and thinking catholics) LEAVE!Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14803657856471554881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-83250943164138407632011-03-21T08:37:45.914-06:002011-03-21T08:37:45.914-06:00We have stopped giving money because we don't ...We have stopped giving money because we don't know what else to do. Those who make the meekest protestation are removed from ministry. In fact, no one can join a ministry these days without being vetted by the pastor.<br />I know the time our group spends with the inmates brings hope to them and we are aware that a 20+ years ministry can be shut down at any moment for "insubordination." At that point it would be time to walk because there is nothing left to lose.<br /> Homebound and those in nursing homes have been left without visits or communion because ministers were not approved.<br />Yet our young JPII priest teaches that disobedience is the "only" sin-defined by him as not obeying the teachings of "Holy Mother Church".coolmomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-44396790041253985112011-03-20T20:16:23.168-06:002011-03-20T20:16:23.168-06:00One other parting thought, Jamie Manson and Eugene...One other parting thought, Jamie Manson and Eugene Kennedy both expressed themselves well on this topic, and various trolls came out and manifested themselves on the NCR pages. I think Mary Frawley O'Dea also hit the nail on the head in asking where American Catholics' Tahrir Square was. I tend to want to avoid confrontation, and usually my attendance at Mass and rehearsal doesn't facilitate it. We don't hear much, if any, overt politicking in the pulpit, but the new young guys hound about abortion because they think it is the topic du jour, even though the sexual abuse and its mishandling have been the real problems the Church faces. Mass attendance has fallen over the 12 years I've been in the parish, and it doesn't appear to be improving.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-62893458897368264552011-03-20T20:11:06.598-06:002011-03-20T20:11:06.598-06:00Well said. I have to admit I find myself torn. I b...Well said. I have to admit I find myself torn. I believe myself obligated to give something so that the church can pay the electrical and heating bills, as well as for coffee & doughnuts after Mass. We heard a CD recording of the local archbishop (Schnurr) asking for money for the diocesan appeal, but since they took our money and used it to fight gay marriage, I'm not feeling inclined to contribute to the appeal.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.com