tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post977044375474435451..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Do We Have A Little Deja Vu In Pope Francis I?colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-81302103326015421422013-03-16T13:03:02.241-06:002013-03-16T13:03:02.241-06:00The name was the focal point for a greater sense o...The name was the focal point for a greater sense of what was going to happen. There was a world of information in the name itself. St Francis started out solo but accrued others who helped in his mission very shortly after he started rebuilding San Damiano. St Claire was instrumental in the intellectual development of the movement and not just in opening up Francis' mission to women. I will not be surprised if a woman or two pops up in Pope Francis' administration.<br /><br /><br />This will be a papacy of efficiency and simplicity and it is his own personal spirituality which will drive his papacy. I'm using the term spirituality rather than religiosity because it's more accurate about the man himself. He has a sort of indifference to a lot of the religiosity that so motivates many other clerics--as did St Francis.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65672255641779365392013-03-16T12:56:44.643-06:002013-03-16T12:56:44.643-06:00If supporting right wing fascism means supporting ...If supporting right wing fascism means supporting unfettered capitalism and man's dominion over mother nature, Pope Francis is definitely not in the group.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-52862158685677169662013-03-16T12:53:55.578-06:002013-03-16T12:53:55.578-06:00I don't think the envious curia is all on the ...I don't think the envious curia is all on the same page anymore. Some who have kept a low profile were not keeping that same profile in the meetings before the Conclave. I hope Francis doesn't take a great deal of time before announcing some of his key appointments. I don't think my curiosity quotient will deal well with much delay. I have noticed that the papal gate keeper is keeping well in background even though he is there. That's another appointment I wonder about, who will Francis appoint for his personal secretaries? A female appointment would be some kind of statement.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-15095490040593589642013-03-16T09:58:04.091-06:002013-03-16T09:58:04.091-06:00Yes, I am hopeful in many ways, too. John XXIII r...Yes, I am hopeful in many ways, too. John XXIII really was known as a conservative. What he did was to challenge the curia to open up the Church. This group has fought back all these years even to the excesses of murdering at least one pope. So if depends on weather this man who is now known as Francis follows the goodness of John or weather he wants to go back to the past. One thing certain, he was not groomed to be a politician as was the Polish Pope, but to think he is at all similar to JPI makes little sense. Perhaps we will have a man like JPI again if an envious curia can be reformed and the way bishops are appointed can be changed. Yes, Francis is ONLY the Bishop of Rome. dennisrdp46noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68552009464107918622013-03-16T08:52:24.306-06:002013-03-16T08:52:24.306-06:00Dennis I first have to admit my hope meter may be ...Dennis I first have to admit my hope meter may be taking over my rational thought processes, but Bergoglio was in a very tough spot. He was a Jesuit provincial functioning under a hierarchy and a papacy that supported the Junta. He had taken the Jesuit's fourth vow of obedience to the Pope. None of us know what was passing back and forth between Rome and Bergoglio except Rome and Bergoglio. <br /><br />I really think this experience has a lot to do with Bergoglio's emphasis on personal conscience. The links you gave were very interesting reading. To be honest, I am weary enough of clericalism that if Francis just puts a damper on the pompous asses, as he has attempted to do in Argentina, I will be pleased---for a change. On yea, and if he sanctions the use of condoms in HIV dissonant marriages I will be ecstatic, and he is on record for this option.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-84466567522547421902013-03-16T08:40:47.184-06:002013-03-16T08:40:47.184-06:00Philip, thanks for that quote. If Pope Francis wa...Philip, thanks for that quote. If Pope Francis walks this talk there really are going to be some folks with red beanies who are going to have a severe case of 'buyer's remorse'.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-18101050945158202982013-03-16T08:31:20.508-06:002013-03-16T08:31:20.508-06:00Here is an inspiring quote from Pope Francis in hi...Here is an inspiring quote from Pope Francis in his remarks to an audience of international journalists gathered at the Vatican, "Christ, is the center, not the Successor of <br />Peter. Christ is the reference point at the heart of the Church, without<br /> Him, Peter and the Church would not exist."Phillip Clarkhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Phillip-Clark/559441180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-3731100562570239312013-03-16T02:25:06.141-06:002013-03-16T02:25:06.141-06:00While many of us hope that this conservative man c...While many of us hope that this conservative man could be more like the conservative John XXIII, it is important to look at a few facts.<br /><br />http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/14/pope_francis_junta_past_argentine_journalist<br /><br />http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/14/a_social_conservative_pope_francis_ledrdp46noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-70447911762467921732013-03-15T22:47:37.549-06:002013-03-15T22:47:37.549-06:00"In any event, he doesn't like a right wi..."In any event, he doesn't like a right wing fascist supporter any longer, no matter what really happened during the Dirty War."<br /><br />I'm hearing all kinds of conflicting reports round about the different blogs about Pope Francis and so I ask you where did you get this idea that he doesn't like a right wing fascist supporter any longer?<br /><br />I hope you are right about that and can provide some sources. <br /><br />Unfortunately, one moment I will hear some hopeful news and the next moment I hear that his choosing the name Francis is just a facade with nothing remotely resembling a Saint Francis on the inside.Fran Schultzhttp://twitter.com/Fran_Schultznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42782014039403474282013-03-15T20:39:40.419-06:002013-03-15T20:39:40.419-06:00Everybody presumes it is Francis of Assisi. Why no...Everybody presumes it is Francis of Assisi. Why not the Jesuit Francis Xavier?Frednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-61064695562388358842013-03-15T06:49:21.902-06:002013-03-15T06:49:21.902-06:00Thanks for the info. I recall the story of Vigano ...Thanks for the info. I recall the story of Vigano and his "promotion" I just didn't have<br /> it connected to a particular name. Like others here I am also <br />interested in the whole "vision" thing. I have learned not to quickly <br />dismiss things I don't understand or have no close experience to use as a<br /> proxy for something beyond my understanding, but I suppose I am <br />skeptical because of that lack of having experienced anything remotely <br />like it myself. That isn't a challenge to your story or its <br />authenticity, as for me skepticism isn't equivalent to rude cynicism. My reaction is <br />more akin to curiosity. Was there anything that came through other than a name?Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-19087209649410037572013-03-14T21:16:07.803-06:002013-03-14T21:16:07.803-06:00I was thinking that early today. The far ends of ...I was thinking that early today. The far ends of the spectrum seem to have found something in common. Maybe that's the new definition of unity?colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-33170153449072350982013-03-14T20:55:34.968-06:002013-03-14T20:55:34.968-06:00Yes - he was never ordained to the priesthood, but...Yes - he was never ordained to the priesthood, but he was ordained to the diaconate.Kerberosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-935420385207828282013-03-14T20:52:31.797-06:002013-03-14T20:52:31.797-06:00There seems to be some uncertainty over his positi...There seems to be some uncertainty over his position regarding the older Mass. Some reports are outright contradictory. What is clear is that some traditionalists are distinctly unhappy - but so are some posters at the NatCatRepo. IMO, it's probably a good sign that he has critics at both ends of the Church.Kerberosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-70348059675260374802013-03-14T20:46:05.043-06:002013-03-14T20:46:05.043-06:00It isn't. Unless he's a smoker, or lets hi...It isn't. Unless he's a smoker, or lets himself get dehydrated, he should be OK. It certainly feels no different from having two. Though he probably won't be as energetic as JP2 used to be. <br /><br />"If I have one real wish, it's that he put the pelvic issues on the back burner and the corruption and social justice issues on the front burner"<br /><br />## I'm guessing that he sees pelvic issues as inextricable from social justice. I hope he lasts a good deal longer than JP1.Kerberosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-74431593115214011792013-03-14T19:58:11.659-06:002013-03-14T19:58:11.659-06:00I too took some hope in this emphasis on Bishop of...I too took some hope in this emphasis on Bishop of Rome. If it portends more collegiality, that would be a very good thing. If it portends autochthonous churches based in geographical areas, that might be a true miracle.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-78745982188158969682013-03-14T19:53:38.033-06:002013-03-14T19:53:38.033-06:00Adam it's an excellent parallel. St. Francis ...Adam it's an excellent parallel. St. Francis took his experience to be literal since he had it in an abandoned run down rural church. The problem I've noticed about these kinds of messages is that they always have multiple levels of meaning. One message usually involves a literal symbol representing a much bigger problem. They are very similar to parables, and I think that's true because the brain itself works on multiple levels with multiple symbol structures.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-30406861264666287532013-03-14T19:49:43.399-06:002013-03-14T19:49:43.399-06:00Dave those are all questions I have, and I don'...Dave those are all questions I have, and I don't have many answers. I also think if he doesn't do something to increase the numbers of priests, or give more autonomy to laity to form their own communities, Catholicism in South America will permanently give way to the evangelicals and pentecostals. <br /><br /><br /><br />I think the good thing is that since Pope Benedict retired there is debate and open discussion about all these issues. This is far preferable to the enforced silence of the last 35 years.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-40891999120013259852013-03-14T19:39:10.579-06:002013-03-14T19:39:10.579-06:00Colleen, I too have been intrigued by his emphasis...Colleen, I too have been intrigued by his emphasis on his role as Bishop of Rome far more than on his role as Supreme Pontiff or Pope. Does this auger well for an entirely new relationship between the Bishop of Rome and all the other bishops of the world. We live in hope.<br /><br /><br />Brian Coyne<br />Editor<br />www.catholica.com.auBrian Coynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-30270883410544400512013-03-14T11:51:14.856-06:002013-03-14T11:51:14.856-06:00Not a Roman Catholic, but I follow blogs like this...Not a Roman Catholic, but I follow blogs like this out of curiosity as <br />well as an awareness of the influence the RC Church has on the everyday <br />lives of hundreds of millions of people as well as their acquaintances <br />and loved ones. Still, I'm not too knowledgeable about Vatican politics.<br /> What message would appointing Vigano send? Reform or retrenchment?<br /><br />I<br /> just happened to have a chance to catch the first appearance of Francis<br /> live on the internet. I was only a very small child (not quite five <br />years old) during the brief papacy of John Paul I, so I can't claim any <br />recollection for comparison. But I agree that Francis did seem humble <br />and concerned about pastoral issues as opposed to political issues in <br />his brief first few remarks. He had what the New Age lingo might call a <br />different energy than his two most recent predecessors.<br /><br />I'm not <br />sure anyone who has even the remotest sense of the current public face <br />of the RC hierarchy expected a liberation theologian or a politically <br />liberal individual to be selected at this conclave. This has left a few <br />SBRN, nominally religious, and non-religious people I know either <br />conflicted or nonplussed by Bergoglio's election. His selection still <br />leaves other important questions: <br /><br />Will Francis lead by example <br />in emphasizing pastoral care over political machinations? (And if so, <br />will he do so by focusing on Rome in outreach and "management" terms <br />while still offering concern and blessings for the cosmic church and the<br /> world at large?)<br /><br />Will Francis put the culture wars on the back <br />burner and focus on humility, charity, and compassion as the way to <br />model the heart of the Church (RC or otherwise) to those who are <br />disenfranchised, disaffected, and dis-empowered? Will he focus on <br />injustices created and perpetuated by systems of greed and corruption? <br /><br />Will<br /> the rest of the hierarchy and the moneyed interests tied to the Vatican<br /> support Francis if he chooses such a path or simply give lip service <br />and endless committee reviews and other delays as a form of passive <br />resistance?Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-25995057443957203922013-03-14T10:35:22.463-06:002013-03-14T10:35:22.463-06:00Reading reactions that NCR posted, I was especiall...Reading reactions that NCR posted, I was especially struck by the one young person who made the point that St Francis of Assisi was called by God to rebuild His church. In the particular case of St Francis, if I'm remembering rightly, it was just as much about rebuilding the physical building....but a very interesting parallel to the potential of our new pope nonetheless.Adam Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-3021195578968092192013-03-14T10:32:53.981-06:002013-03-14T10:32:53.981-06:00Somehow, even though I share the cautious optimism...Somehow, even though I share the cautious optimism of this papacy everyone here seems to have (and agree with the hope of how Francis will act, especially given his choice of name), I somehow didn't work out that they would select an "interim" pope! A very interesting thought that I think I'd have to agree with.Adam Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-89918063914223054472013-03-14T09:40:25.546-06:002013-03-14T09:40:25.546-06:00Does this mean that Missy Burke and the crew will ...Does this mean that Missy Burke and the crew will have to retire their velvet and lace until the next conclave? Just DREADFUL! I am sure that Ray-ray had an attack of the vapors and took to her fainting couch over this election.Chris in Ks.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-76984419001224638092013-03-14T08:30:04.453-06:002013-03-14T08:30:04.453-06:00Wasn't Francis ordained a deacon?Wasn't Francis ordained a deacon?Agni Ashwinhttp://www.facebook.com/agni.ashwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46182488389166066262013-03-14T08:26:55.122-06:002013-03-14T08:26:55.122-06:00I don't think having one lung is necessarily i...I don't think having one lung is necessarily indicative of poor health.Agni Ashwinhttp://www.facebook.com/agni.ashwinnoreply@blogger.com