tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post127023068951454211..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: What Does Sir Rupert Murdoch Tell Us About The Vatican's Relationship With Money?colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-53084023791000021062011-07-28T19:01:47.405-06:002011-07-28T19:01:47.405-06:00Veronica, this is a great comment, and no I can...Veronica, this is a great comment, and no I can't fathom that both sides didn't fully understand they were each take the other's money to the bank. The eligibility rules for this award were changed mid way through JPII's papacy. It was then non Catholics were allowed to receive this award. Murdoch has not been the only non Catholic to receive this award. In the Mahoney ceremony in which Murdoch received his award, Roy Disney and Bob Hope were also honored.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-41768292690709061892011-07-26T13:57:21.812-06:002011-07-26T13:57:21.812-06:00Wait one minute here... a Catholic 'knighthood...Wait one minute here... a Catholic 'knighthood' was conferred on a non-Catholic? How does that work? But I suppose his not being Catholic - despite being married to a Catholic woman and assuming that marriage rec'd the proper dispensations so she could continue receiving Communion, etc. - would allow him to retain his paid-for title without the dreaded scandal to the Church because he was not a Catholic after all. So it's OK to set the bar far lower for the poor soul.<br /><br />Sorry. Much as I'd like to be some days, I'm just not that naive.<br /><br />This can't be so much a matter of 1 rule for the rich and powerful and another rule for the rest of us. It is simple cold-blooded opportunistic accumulation of secular wealth - on BOTH sides. Cause you can bet Murdoch took his title to the bank just as much as the church took the $10M.<br />VeronicaT'Pelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497973041430354008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-33565895949824841242011-07-25T09:33:25.758-06:002011-07-25T09:33:25.758-06:00Kevin, why do I think those giving the thumbs up f...Kevin, why do I think those giving the thumbs up for a US Catholic monarchy don't envision themselves as the serfs such shows rest on?colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-29529993046949431282011-07-25T09:04:42.361-06:002011-07-25T09:04:42.361-06:00Communism was the great buggaboo for two reasons: ...Communism was the great buggaboo for two reasons: the State owned all the assets and didn't share, and they were godless. I've never been sure which was the driving force behind Pacelli/Pius XII excommunicating communist Russians but failing to do so with any fascist leader, and that leadership included all Catholic Nazi leaders including Hitler.<br />----------------<br />To add to the Catholic Right's fascist tendencies, I noticed (and responded to) a comment on a Trad blog that championed a "Catholic monarchy" for the United States. After all, it "reasoned," look at what democracy has given us: slavery (I guess that never existed before 1776), debts (Can anyone say Louis XIV and XV?), etc. Now, one crazed individual should not characterize an ideology, but there were 9 "thumbs up" to the call for a Catholic monarchy here. Unbelievable.kevin57https://www.blogger.com/profile/01681985465980196347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-92097821273056553162011-07-24T19:53:24.180-06:002011-07-24T19:53:24.180-06:00I mean "Rome", of course. Sheesh.I mean "Rome", of course. Sheesh.mjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-17521802507109543202011-07-24T19:52:13.476-06:002011-07-24T19:52:13.476-06:00Fascinating, and disturbing. Thanks, p2p and Coll...Fascinating, and disturbing. Thanks, p2p and Colleen. I think I need to read "Render Unto Caesar".mjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-37686957140321905582011-07-24T19:47:36.834-06:002011-07-24T19:47:36.834-06:00Interesting timing on Murdoch's title. He rece...Interesting timing on Murdoch's title. He received it then was divorced within the year. (for the second time)<br /><br />At Mass today there was an announcement about the RCIA class to start up in the fall. Usually we have four or five candidates each year. <br /><br />All this effort to bring a half dozen or so adults into the church and yet there is no outreach program to those Catholics in our community who find themselves on the wrong side of Church policy on divorce, sexual identity etc. I'm sure the same effort would produce 10 times the results. <br /><br />Anyway, I often wonder about the hierarchy being so quick to embrace the divorced conservatives from other faiths, like Rupert Murdoch, Newt Gingrich and Deal Hudson. They certainly don't do the same for the ordinary Catholic, you know, the ones without wealth and power.<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-66594756835592121532011-07-24T18:33:53.577-06:002011-07-24T18:33:53.577-06:00That's more or less my feeling Molly. He paid...That's more or less my feeling Molly. He paid big money for his title and he should get to keep it.<br /><br />mjc, Wealth = power and for eons the Roman Catholic Church has been the biggest power of them all. Kings danced to their tune--and all for the glory of Christ..ahemmm.<br /><br />The Vatican saw the handwriting on the wall about how necessary it was going to be to be heavily invested with wealthy families and corporations early in this corporate wealth game. Hence the sudden founding of the Vatican Bank and Cardinal Pacelli's obsession with signing concordats with the fascist powers of Italy, Spain, and Germany. It wasn't only to protect religious freedom, it was to protect hard and liquid assets of not only the Vatican but their joint investments with rich cronies in non fascist countries.<br /><br />Communism was the great buggaboo for two reasons: the State owned all the assets and didn't share, and they were godless. I've never been sure which was the driving force behind Pacelli/Pius XII excommunicating communist Russians but failing to do so with any fascist leader, and that leadership included all Catholic Nazi leaders including Hitler.<br /><br />There are real worldly reasons Opus Dei and the Legion of Christ were products of fascist Spain and that both targeted the wealthy, especially business and media leaders like Rupert Murdoch and Carlos Slim.<br /><br />The Seven Mountain Strategy of New Apostolic Reformation is the protestant attempt to supplant the Roman Catholic Church. I suspect this is why the Vatican really is alarmed at the inroads the NAR has made in South America. None of this is about evangelizing for Jesus. It's about putting dollars in the pockets of religious leadership and using those dollars to control the political and economic future of the globe. Whether fundie Catholic leadership or fundie Protestant leadership rules the roost hardly matters because the outcome will still be the same. "The Poor Will Be With Us" in larger and larger numbers.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-29407020231493564962011-07-24T17:47:31.349-06:002011-07-24T17:47:31.349-06:00The Vatican is for sale and has been for some time...The Vatican is for sale and has been for some time. Rupert paid for his title and I guess he should be able to keep it.Molly Roachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-78958860399473187812011-07-24T16:11:29.609-06:002011-07-24T16:11:29.609-06:00@mjc
If you are a winner in the existing system ...@mjc <br /><br />If you are a winner in the existing system you want to conserve institutions, in general. They may have been part of your success. You don't know. <br /><br />My friend's father inherited a very important business that employed hundreds of people. He was a good man and for his generosity to the Church he received an honorific title (not the one mentioned). It was duly noted at the time of his death.<br /><br />His daughter was, in my opinion, a saint, a very humble, genuine person who might not have had material wealth but she gave her entire heart and soul to her faith. She was never recognized by the hierarchy but her funeral mass was con-celebrated by 10 priests. <br /><br />The faithful know when they are in the presence of holiness. They don't need badges, pins, or titles to guide them.<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-3151568604864270462011-07-24T14:50:25.783-06:002011-07-24T14:50:25.783-06:00"fueled by cold hard cash from American conse..."fueled by cold hard cash from American conservatives."<br /><br />Kevin, Colleen, and all, even though I feel this is true, I have a hard time understanding motives. American conservative political contributions are given to increase profits -- that's a given. But to the Vatican -- profit? power? heavenly indulgences? guilt? I'm still looking for a good grip on this one.mjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-22994699237461338312011-07-24T13:54:44.846-06:002011-07-24T13:54:44.846-06:00I concur completely. There is no doubt that the r...I concur completely. There is no doubt that the rightward tilt of the Vatican over the past couple of decades has been fueled by cold hard cash from American conservatives.kevin57https://www.blogger.com/profile/01681985465980196347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-29384413065088750372011-07-24T12:30:32.602-06:002011-07-24T12:30:32.602-06:00To expand upon your post, I'd recommend readin...To expand upon your post, I'd recommend reading Jason Berry's latest book, "Render Unto Rome." He points out there is a lot the laity does not know about diocesan or Vatican finances.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.com