tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post4709490061251242318..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Tradition, The Path From Fishermen to Potentatescolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68841466226504917912008-12-16T14:51:00.000-07:002008-12-16T14:51:00.000-07:00Thanks for commenting Christopher, and you are cor...Thanks for commenting Christopher, and you are correct about my going after the traditionalists. Well, somewhat correct.<BR/><BR/>I find nothing in the Traditional Latin Mass that is intrinsically offensive, and a great deal which truly is transcendant like Gregorian chant. <BR/><BR/>What I find offensive is all the pomp and circumstance laid on the celebrants and the cost there of.<BR/><BR/>If our mysticism does not lead to our understanding that Jesus dwells in all of us and we must serve one another, then our mysticism is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.<BR/><BR/>Mathew cahpter 23:<BR/><BR/> All their works are performed to be seen. They widen their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels. <BR/> <BR/>5 They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, <BR/> <BR/>greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.' <BR/> <BR/>6 As for you, do not be called 'Rabbi.' You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. <BR/>9 <BR/>Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. <BR/>10 <BR/>Do not be called 'Master'; you have but one master, the Messiah. <BR/>11 <BR/>The greatest among you must be your servant. <BR/>12 <BR/>Whoever exalts himself will be humbled; but whoever humbles himself will be exalted. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I'm sorry Christopher, but I just can't reconcile Imperial Catholicism with what Jesus is saying in Mathew chapter 23. <BR/><BR/>I attended parish Masses back in the 60's at both a large wealthy suburban parish in Detroit and a small rural parish in Montana. The two latin Masses were like night and day, but although the Detroit parish did it in spades, glitter, gold, and incense, the small Montana parish was much more spiritually meaningful. So I know from personal experience the TLM does not need the glitz and glitter to be effective.<BR/><BR/>A personal side note. The Parish priest in the small Montana parish was a personal friend of John Paul's and he visited the parish a couple of years before he became Pope. <BR/><BR/>I used to have the greatest arguments with Msgr Glusczek who absolutely hated the Novus Ordo. I think we were like three years behind the rest of the diocese in implementing it.<BR/><BR/>Monsignor and I loved each other dearly even though our theologies weren't even in the same league much less the same ballpark.<BR/><BR/>The last thing he ever said to me was that he would pray very hard for me in Latin to see that I didn't wind up in hell. We both laughed and I thanked him!colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-70523817169272111622008-12-15T15:39:00.000-07:002008-12-15T15:39:00.000-07:00Wow. You really are going after the traditionalist...Wow. You really are going after the traditionalist movement hard now aren't you? Jesus criticized the pharisees for their hypocrisy. Not for the pomp and magnificence of the temple. You give fine jewelry to a lover. But should we not do the same towards God? Having things such as Gregorian Chant, incense, kneeling to recieve communion are all about lifting us up to the divine! It's all about giving us a sense of the sacred. A sense of mystery, if you will.<BR/><BR/>2) The fact that the pope is moving the sign of peace is good. Before the consecration it is important that we put our full attention towards God! The mass is about God...not the community. Do I downplay the community? No, I admit the importance of community and the mass is a deep prayer in which the Catholic community prays to God, and recieves the Eucharist, together.<BR/><BR/>Thankyou and God bless<BR/>-ChristopherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-71846395714322488282008-12-12T08:15:00.000-07:002008-12-12T08:15:00.000-07:00That's funny Marci. Follydr as a word verificatio...That's funny Marci. Follydr as a word verification is perfect for this post as most of these potentates have PHD's. Of course, the vast majority of those degrees are from Catholic seminaries and are in Canon Law.<BR/><BR/>True Bill, politics and pompousness go hand in hand. The website I took Pell's photo from frequently name drops the minor nobility he has run across in his pursuit of covering TLM activities in Rome. The comments, their fawning and such, are incredible. It's hard to believe this is an American site.<BR/><BR/>My word was deste, which my brain tried to turn into detest.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-39743423820801730082008-12-12T06:48:00.000-07:002008-12-12T06:48:00.000-07:00Colleen, deeply insightful commentary, with some g...Colleen, deeply insightful commentary, with some good zingers (e.g., the implications of dragging us back).<BR/><BR/>I especially like how you note the link between the new liturgy czar's politics and his view of the liturgy. The two go hand in hand, always, and too often, these discussions of liturgy don't point out the political implications. <BR/><BR/>I'm glad you're doing so.William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-8560952956803345292008-12-11T19:38:00.000-07:002008-12-11T19:38:00.000-07:00i agree with you butterfly. . .i think most of wha...i agree with you butterfly. . .i think most of what we see with the religious right is about being in the level of consciousness that is often expressed in the Old Testament. . .<BR/><BR/>my word is follydr. . .i would imagine most of these potentates have studied the letter of the law and surely have phd. . .riverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06788063200800504460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-90875688687943298892008-12-11T18:07:00.000-07:002008-12-11T18:07:00.000-07:00Perhaps they really have ditched the New Testament...Perhaps they really have ditched the New Testament. It would seem that they focus too much on the old anyway. They are always looking back and making what is in the past more important than what is now, in the present. By doing so they have become stuck and are tripping on their long robes into empty churches.<BR/><BR/>word is maticisebutterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684946870144030594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-3330741451382869422008-12-11T16:35:00.000-07:002008-12-11T16:35:00.000-07:00Excerpt from "SINS OF THE FATHERS"There are many s...Excerpt from "SINS OF THE FATHERS"<BR/><BR/>There are many scriptures in the new testament that specifically refer to the Magisterial Authority of the Catholic Church, and not in complimentary terms. <BR/><BR/>Mr 12:38 - "And in his teaching he said, "Beware of the scribes, who like to go about in long robes, and to have salutations in the market places and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts"<BR/><BR/>Lu 20:46 - "Beware of the scribes, who like to go about in long robes, and love salutations in the market places and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts,"<BR/><BR/>(long robes, 20' magna cappas, places of honor, ring kissing - sounds awfully familiar doesnt it?)<BR/><BR/>Lu 12:1 - "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.<BR/><BR/>Mt 16:11 - "How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees." <BR/><BR/>Mt 16:12 - "Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees"<BR/><BR/>The internet is filled with photos of the bishops from all over the world in their ornate robes and cappa magmas. Each of these photos is an indictment of the depraved indifference of the Magisterial Authorities to the true message of Christ that is contained in the scriptures.<BR/><BR/>The hypocrisy of the bishopric is well documented. Very well documented. There are enough examples just in the last 2 decades to fill a very large encyclopedia.<BR/><BR/>The question we must be asking now, is very simple. The bishops are supposed to be guardians of the faith. How faithfully are they performing that function? The answer: all one has to do is look at their clothes, their cars and their castles and the answer will be obvious.COL55https://www.blogger.com/profile/07057765287988790129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-62252837308856242582008-12-11T16:30:00.000-07:002008-12-11T16:30:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.COL55https://www.blogger.com/profile/07057765287988790129noreply@blogger.com