tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post6497657033956150700..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Cardinal Burke On Holy Canon Lawcolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-63575095662612943712012-09-04T09:48:23.041-06:002012-09-04T09:48:23.041-06:00To be fair, Colleen, the only meanings of those wo...To be fair, Colleen, the only meanings of those words that they know are the precise 'Catholic' ones as they define it.<br /><br />I came away from reading it with the idea that they were writing to impose, assert and expand upon their own authority. Something a bit stronger than run of the mill pomposity. Yes, he was addressing the 1 percent - to impress them with his place in their hierarchy; but also using the vocabulary to repress the 99 percent. They can't argue from their own sense of fairness and spirit if they don't share a similar language. Cheap ruse to be sure, but in some audiences I bet it would work. Either that or the English translations just aren't cutting it.T'Pelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497973041430354008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-4582469691654042682012-09-03T12:20:28.830-06:002012-09-03T12:20:28.830-06:00Paul, thanks for linking to Queering the Church. ...Paul, thanks for linking to Queering the Church. I actually meant to do that in today's post and then spaced it out.<br /><br />I agree about Burke's language. I still do not get what it was he was trying to convey about marriage tribunals. I have difficulty with Benedict's stuff for the same reason, contorted, convoluted run on sentences using a vocabulary I can't be sure of precisely how they are using certain words.<br /><br />Secularism is one of those words. They don't seem to be using the usual accepted definition, but one that has a particular Catholic meaning.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-58168596812396350142012-09-03T11:37:17.727-06:002012-09-03T11:37:17.727-06:00Michael, I want to know what's in the cheese. ...Michael, I want to know what's in the cheese. No wonder Morlino got sent to Madison.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-77050969243433703662012-09-03T10:38:10.590-06:002012-09-03T10:38:10.590-06:00The fact of delivery in Kenya reminds me of Sen.In...The fact of delivery in Kenya reminds me of Sen.Inhofe of Oklahoma that likes to do missionary work in Africa when away from the Senate and play the great white father to his dark children. In Ray's case he is explaining the rebrand-ing of the old coke into the "New Coke" of the new evangelism without consulting the public first if they want a "New Coke" or a new evangelism. Having lived in American test markets in Arizona, I keep scratching my head when the meal-ticket cleric class of the Vatican keep talking about what sounds like a fundamentalist roll out of a traveling tent circus religious revival ready to be rolled out, ready or not. Ray's big kick is perhaps explaining the great white father's vision for the future of the third world now that Europe and the rest of the first and second world can't be lied to anymore by snake oil salesmen in Rome. Curious too is that Ray grew up in Richland Center Wisconsin, yes another cheese boy. Richland Center was a hotbed of the suffragette movement in the midwest in its day. What is in the drinking water there??? Besides Ray, Frank Lloyd Wright was born in Richland Center and curious enough Svetlana Peters, Stalin's daughter, died there.M.McSheahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809255693603458058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-48190461802406110382012-09-03T10:35:53.596-06:002012-09-03T10:35:53.596-06:00And the Russian Orthadox have a similar path as th...And the Russian Orthadox have a similar path as the RCC: <br /><br /> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/03/russian-clergyman-quits-church-after-pussy-riot-verdict/<br /><br />Also see Tom Roberts recent excellent take on Burke's speech. <br /><br />http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-burkes-sex-abuse-analysis-woefully-inadequate<br /><br />dennis Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12522679695624209390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-57376961371757714202012-09-03T10:24:56.826-06:002012-09-03T10:24:56.826-06:00Well said, p2p. dennisWell said, p2p. dennisUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12522679695624209390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23913048053530075432012-09-03T09:37:36.803-06:002012-09-03T09:37:36.803-06:00Beware of the man who describes himself as humble....Beware of the man who describes himself as humble. He is anything but!Bill Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03454615295707833435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-63129065457008863132012-09-03T09:01:53.070-06:002012-09-03T09:01:53.070-06:00Dennis, for some reason longer posts are going to ...Dennis, for some reason longer posts are going to the SPAM file. <br /><br />Your point is well taken and it's the same thing that struck me as I read the entire Zenit article. Burke comes across like the Church is above and beyond having to integrate any new knowledge coming from science since the Council of Trent. What does he think, all this progress on so many fronts is the result of the dark side, and only the Church wallowing in it's tradition is still pure?colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46383807638190002522012-09-03T08:56:25.109-06:002012-09-03T08:56:25.109-06:00Montini. What a contrast to Burke.
I highly recom...Montini. What a contrast to Burke.<br /><br />I highly recommend using the link to:<br />Queering the Church<br />Queer Lessons in Cardinal Martini’s Warning From the Grave <br /><br />When I read Burke's remarks I wondered about the context because the language used is so stilted. Who could he possibly be writing for? Why has he chosen to be so obtuse? I've read a few academic papers in my day and quite frankly I enjoy an author's use of a more extensive vocabulary if it is appropriate. <br /><br />Redound instead of rebound? Obfuscation. The document requires about 18 to 22 years of education to be be understood. It isn't easily readable by a typical undergraduate. He's addressing the 1 percent. Or maybe just talking to himself. The convoluted sentence structure, ambitious vocabulary, and content promoting a turgid magisterial canon over the the gospels convey only one lesson. It is a war between the curial "We" against the rest, the secular "They".<br /><br />p2p<br /><br />Burke's magna cappa portrait says it all. He's promoting the 200 year old, out of date, irrelevant "CHURCH". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-77799081885991661452012-09-03T07:54:54.788-06:002012-09-03T07:54:54.788-06:00The ambiguity was a good idea, except that the ecc...The ambiguity was a good idea, except that the ecclesial foxes got control of the henhouse from the papacy on down before the dream of those like Montini could be realized. Bill Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03454615295707833435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-43993243941500515752012-09-03T01:15:40.547-06:002012-09-03T01:15:40.547-06:00Cardinal Burke while he wears the extravagant robe...Cardinal Burke while he wears the extravagant robes of another time calls himself the humble student of canon law and that canon law is the most important contribution to the unity of the One Church. He discusses the the antinomian tendency of others but never mentions any ideas that the Spirit was given us in order to learn more of truth from a great God. He is indeed fearful of secularism because in it, there is often a growth and development of truth. In what he discusses as his humility, truth is only found in past discourse of men codified into cannon law. The history of what some thought was truth codified in the past is indeed more important to this man than a Holy presence in the world to inspire fallible beings and to produce more understanding about truth.<br /><br />As a person who very much believes in personal and societal growth and development all this sounds extremely hypocritical and highly paternal. It leaves out the ideas of increasing scientific knowledge because of growth and understanding of more truth. There can be no truth inspired by the Spirit to modern men, the truth only comes from lawyers (of the past and of course Burke). With thoughts like these, how does he explain the automatic opening of the supermarket door when he attempts to enter. This comes from a truth found in quantum mechanics that the fathers of the Church never had any understanding. Was it the Spirit or only man himself that allowed these ideas to be more understood so that society could grow? Is this Burke's antediluvian thought or is it delusional thought of grandeur? What ever it is, there is no humility at all only but is all paternalism dressed in the cape of righteousness. When people understand what this man is saying, they can only head for the door out rather than into the Roman Church! The door out is becoming automatic like the supermarket when Burke’s ideas are put to any critical thought. dennisUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12522679695624209390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24031080569005626772012-09-03T01:12:55.292-06:002012-09-03T01:12:55.292-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12522679695624209390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-13337437028437320482012-09-03T00:01:45.194-06:002012-09-03T00:01:45.194-06:00I attended a lecture about 20 years ago that one o...I attended a lecture about 20 years ago that one of the big changes the Council was trying to effect was approaching morality from a personalistic premise rather thanx a legalistic one. The traditionalists I've known have thought that was why Vatican II was a disaster in their eyes. Plus the documents don't spell things as directly as say Nicea, Trent and even the First Vatican Council did. As you noté in your comment , perhaps that was the intention. That's not a bug, that's a feature.<br /><br />John FremontAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-6413817437068566592012-09-02T21:20:18.078-06:002012-09-02T21:20:18.078-06:00Actually Bill, you might right. I've read ana...Actually Bill, you might right. I've read analysis from folks who were there and they too think that the Council Fathers left the documents in such a way that they could be interpreted from a progressive point of view and a traditional. I agree, there is a sort of disconnect in terms of philosophy and how that philosophy is expressed.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72622236631936322752012-09-02T21:18:04.869-06:002012-09-02T21:18:04.869-06:00I agree Jim. Burke has so missed the whole idea o...I agree Jim. Burke has so missed the whole idea of what Jesus taught. It really wasn't holiness as Burke thinks, it's wholeness and how that expresses itself in compassion for others.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-59262299255198612662012-09-02T19:11:25.612-06:002012-09-02T19:11:25.612-06:00This man has obviously gone over to the dark side....This man has obviously gone over to the dark side. And don't forget that he is now the U.S. ecclesiatical kingmaker among the Vaticanes. Witness Salvatore (Sally the Hammer) Cordileone, the new chaplain for AA.Jimmy Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01156445623455211484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-26010502485022476662012-09-02T17:36:18.109-06:002012-09-02T17:36:18.109-06:00Maybe Burke has it backwards. Maybe one of the gre...Maybe Burke has it backwards. Maybe one of the greatest strengths and accomplishments of Vatican II is that it didn't take Canon Law seriously! The Council Fathers left that decision to small-minded, insecure Vatican aparatchicks like Burke.Bill Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03454615295707833435noreply@blogger.com