tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post7867307858881571055..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: It's One Thousand Years Later And Still The Message Goes Unheardcolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-63800853999142275062010-04-11T15:48:37.568-06:002010-04-11T15:48:37.568-06:00TheraP -
In my comment I was not in any way impl...TheraP - <br /><br />In my comment I was not in any way implying that abuser priests should not be subject to Civil Law. I thought that should have been implicit. <br /><br />I was however making a distinction: that the Church & Canon Law is not the 'be all & end all'. In St.Peter Damien's time, it was. Canon & Civil Law were married (or virtually so). Now they are not - nor should they be! <br /><br />The ONLY thing the Church should do is to throw the bastards out of the priesthood.....and let the (Civil) law take its course. <br /><br />That in kicking them out...a phone call to the local DA should be very much implicit.<br /><br />Anon Y. MouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-66973958890849245022010-04-11T12:18:39.104-06:002010-04-11T12:18:39.104-06:00Colleen,
It seems I'm not the only one in the...Colleen,<br /><br />It seems I'm not the only one in the blogosphere who has sex on the mind today.<br /><br />See: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/4/11/855957/-S-E-X <br /><br />I agree I like the comments and dialog in blogging. But you can't have a good discussion without a good writer and topic so thanks for getting the ball rolling here.<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-38660903424632908142010-04-11T12:09:04.751-06:002010-04-11T12:09:04.751-06:00And another thing!
You're absolutely right ab...And another thing!<br /><br />You're absolutely right about mental gymnastics and Catholic thinking on sexuality. <br /><br />How many LC/RC types couldn't bring themselves to face the truth about Maciel. My stomach turned to read their comments, talk about twisted. Some are so bad that it seems beyond denial. They don't even seem to have any grasp on reality. How can you discuss anything with those so deluded?<br /><br />One ex-LC calls his blog Goodness, Truth, Beauty but he uses the latin terms. Less than a month ago he published some photos that had appeared in a Mexican magazine calling Maciel's partner Norma a "whore". And he doesn't think that's being misogynistic. Other "orthodox" (sorry TheraP, that's what they call themselves, and I know that's not what you have turned to.) LC people commented on little Norma, Maciel's daughter, because her dress was sleeveless and didn't meet the "Pure Fashion ™" standards. Or the apologists who say the guy was never convicted, or those who describe ...<br /><br />I could scream. <br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-50299631071871593062010-04-11T12:03:58.738-06:002010-04-11T12:03:58.738-06:00I wonder who buys more of these whips, the peniten...I wonder who buys more of these whips, the penitent crowd or the BDSM crowd? Who says that sado-masochism isn't part of the penitential mind set? Obviously not people who actually sell the whips.<br /><br />As far as censoring, it's a very rare event and usually because of spam or direct personal attacks. I've truly gotten some of my best information and ideas from the comments section--and a great deal of spiritual insight. Personally I think the comments section is the best part of this blog.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-21955810035374530112010-04-11T11:12:05.566-06:002010-04-11T11:12:05.566-06:00Oh Colleen,
Thanks for understanding. After I pos...Oh Colleen,<br /><br />Thanks for understanding. After I posted I wondered if I was totally out of line. I haven't been here long but I thought you wouldn't remove the comments. <br /><br />But seriously...<br /><br />You are familiar with the theology of the body and you did take my comments seriously. You know I wasn't kidding about the BDSM thing. How did I discover this? Try a series of google searches that include terms like: catholic, sex, abuse, scandal, perverted, deviant, etc. I learned a lot of things serendipitously through my interest in the LC/Maciel scandal. <br /><br />I won't go into details but one of the most astounding things I learned was that whip makers who serve the BDSM community also serve the religious communities by selling "penitents" for self flagellation. They advertise.<br /><br />I am so naïve. While watching the Da Vinci code I'm cringing while Silas is beating himself. Little did I know there were people in the audience going "Cool. Where can I get one of those whips?" and others thinking "Hey, that looks like the flogger I bought down at the sex shop last week".<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-64206599786456147832010-04-11T10:20:40.116-06:002010-04-11T10:20:40.116-06:00p2p I just loved your last line.
It's interes...p2p I just loved your last line.<br /><br />It's interesting to me that some of the more prominent people in the Theology of the Body movement are just about essentially saying anything goes as long as it ends in vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman.<br /><br />Sometimes I just am speechless with some of the contorted thinking one has to use in Catholicism. Intentionally desiring not to get pregnant is OK if one uses NFP, which leads to the notion that it's a perfectly moral act to have sex with your wife with no intention to have a baby but you will go to hell if you use a condom to protect her life from your HIV status because using a condom usually prevents your sexual act from making a baby.<br /><br />How does one explain this kind of thinking to their children and remotely appear like an adult christian? It's like having an ethical discussion over what kinds of fines and taxes can be stuck on Free Parking in Monopoly when the rules specifically state none.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-67383903429967771692010-04-11T08:59:34.307-06:002010-04-11T08:59:34.307-06:00...
Well... I learned that there are a lot of prac......<br />Well... I learned that there are a lot of practices that people consider to be "Biblical". For example, although I won't link I can, some people consider male homosexual behavior forbidden but lesbian behavior is not. The quote the bible examples and teachings chapter and verse. The same for consensual Bondage and Discipline. Some consider the Male Led Household is Biblical and that this justifies all the practices of Dominance and Submission. (Yes all of them!) However, feminism and a Female led household would be anti-Biblical and therefore condemned. So bootlicking is ok if the woman is doing the licking, but not the man.<br /><br />Amazing! All the things I'd never once considered in my life. There are groups of people who consider polyamory where there are two or more women serving the same BDSM "Master" to be holy relationships but woe betide the Domme with her two boytoys, not Biblical.<br /><br />I don't know why I've written this. In one sense it seems tangental but on the other hand maybe the idea of "sexual deviance" isn't what I originally conceived it to be not what it was thought to be a few years ago. <br /><br />Oh, and there are Catholics in the BDSM scene who consider their subservience, the bondage, flogging, and other forms of foreplay to be blessed only if the sex is may lead to procreation. <br /><br />On the issue of age of consent. Only in the last 100 years has life expectancy doubled from about 30 years to over 60 for the average citizen of the world. It made sense for people to get married and have sex about the same time they hit puberty and so I understand why 14 was legal for marriage with parental permission here, 16 without parental approval. I have records of my ancestors marrying in the Church at age 15 in 1812. <br /><br />Natural law, seemed, and was, indeed, natural. Naturally in tune with the lives of human beings. But times have changed, people have changed, and the Church hasn't a clue about the irrelevance of their sexual teachings in relation to the change in the human life cycle. Puberty comes earlier, some as young as 11, and the age of first marriage comes later in life. In North America it is now about 25 years of age. There's a huge gap in the human development to a sexual being and the opportunity to practice sex. What was natural and livable wisdom in ancient times is absolutely unnatural now. Teens have always been interested in sex. In ancient cultures they could have culturally and religiously sanctioned sex almost immediately upon reaching sexual maturity. And I haven't even addressed the socio-cultural issues of education required for employment in today's society! <br /><br />One of the objections I have to the early indoctrination and taking of boys as young as 12 into the LC training for ordination is that they are too young! <br /><br />On the other end of the life cycle there are problems too. <br /><br />My parents are in their mid 80's and they laugh about the Church's stand on marriage and seniors. Can their octogenarian friends get married in the Church if the union cannot produce children? Don't laugh to quickly. Their friends are torn apart trying to set a good example for their grandchildren but they're confused. If we can't get married should we shack up? If there's no chance of sex for procreation are we committing a sin? After all that's one of the criteria used to judge moral sexual behavior such as the condemnation of birth control and anal sex. <br /><br />I'm just happy to think people in their eighties can have sex and enjoy sex, even if they need to strap on the leather to get excited. <br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-19141374965873555192010-04-11T08:58:58.770-06:002010-04-11T08:58:58.770-06:00Ummm,
The internet...
Last year I became intere...Ummm, <br /><br />The internet...<br /><br />Last year I became interested in the LC/RC because our parish priest and some friends, who are very, very conservative, home-schooling Catholics wanted to start up a youth group. They proposed to bring in the ConQuest/Challenge programs and had two cassocked young priests conduct a weekend retreat for youth. <br /><br />I don't question the sincerity of my friends and pastor but as soon as I saw these two LC priests I smelled a rat. About ten minutes of googling told me all I needed to know about Maciel and his organizations. I wrote a letter objecting to the use of LC/RC people and materials, as did at least one other member of the parish, and spoke against the idea at the one meeting called about this youth group. <br /><br />Thank God the LC visitation was announced about a month later. The youth group does not use LC/RC as the model and those LC priests have not been invited back.<br /><br />In the meantime I became fascinated by the whole issue of sexuality, morality, and the RCC. I have some professional training in this area but don't work in the health field. <br /><br />p2p<br /><br />... continued belowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-19315441161073768162010-04-10T21:09:48.394-06:002010-04-10T21:09:48.394-06:00According to another article I read the only other...According to another article I read the only other countries with an age as low as 12 are Angola, Mexico, Philippines, and Zimbabwe.<br /><br />In Spain it's 13, but what I find most interesting is that in Spain, Mexico, the Phillipines, and the Vatican City States homosexual activity is legal at those ages. In Angola no homosexual activity is legal, and in Zimbabwe female homosexual activity is legal but male isn't.<br /><br />Interesting that in these very Catholic countries where clergy rant on and on about the evils of gay marriage, gay sex is legal and at very young ages. How convenient for say Fr. Maciel.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-44286174014661977942010-04-10T20:16:17.934-06:002010-04-10T20:16:17.934-06:00Age of Consent in the Province of Ontario, where t...Age of Consent in the Province of Ontario, where these cases originated was 14 years at the time. <br /><br />Last year the federal government changed the age of consent to 16, with some exceptions when there are two teenagers involved. (A 16 year old and a 15 year old won't be arrested for necking and petting for example.)<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-51788204719276207332010-04-10T18:54:24.513-06:002010-04-10T18:54:24.513-06:00The age of consent at the Vatican is just 12 !
H...The age of consent at the Vatican is just <b>12</b> ! <br />How convenient! <br /><br />I notice in Italy it's 14. And Pius IX said Garabaldi's Italian Revolution was godless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-76516195696545255982010-04-10T18:24:28.605-06:002010-04-10T18:24:28.605-06:00Long before Peter Damien there was this:
'The...Long before Peter Damien there was this:<br /><br />'The Road to Hell is paved with the bones of priests and monks, and the skulls of bishops form the lamp posts that light the path' ~ St. John Chrysostom, 4th Century Patriarch of Constantinople<br /><br />I think there's plenty of evidence that clergy sexual abuse is as much a problem in the Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, though far less media attention focuses in that direction. I'll simply say for any Catholics considering swimming the Bosphorus, you need to check out www.pokrov.orgjohn iliff https://www.blogger.com/profile/02302505584191566477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-64724935070968719842010-04-10T16:14:39.188-06:002010-04-10T16:14:39.188-06:00It is not enough to throw them out of the priestho...It is not enough to throw them out of the priesthood. For the good of society they also need to be locked up! <br /><br />And if priests could marry, far more of them would totally understand the need to protect children - theirs and everybody else's.<br /><br />The lack of concern for the welfare of children (and adolescents and women and men) is simply so reprehensible - that it makes my head steam!TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-25617850978912361092010-04-10T14:38:56.125-06:002010-04-10T14:38:56.125-06:00While I do not necessarily agree with all the '...While I do not necessarily agree with all the 'penalties' upon such grossly errent clerics proposed by St.Peter Damien - I agree with the main thrust of his reasoning:<br /><br />That this is a VERY serious matter. That the abuser MUST be IMMEDIATELY removed from any possible contact with youth & quickly expelled from the priesthood or religious state. There is no excuse for equivocating on his 'prior record' or 'exceptional service to the church', ad nauseum. Throw the bum out! <br /><br />Peter's concern is for the welfare of the victim as well as for causing scandal to the FAITH of the masses. He understood what I & other have referred to: that such scandals utterly 'pulls the rug out from under ppl' in terms of how they view 'religion' & God. It literally can destroy souls. <br /><br />If the mission of 'The Church' is to save souls by guiding them gently to God by spiritual direction, the tacit/overt toleration & enabling of clerical sex abuse is akin to switching a road sign to point toward.....a bridge that is out! <br /><br />Anon Y. MouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-37421133507379566992010-04-10T09:10:00.320-06:002010-04-10T09:10:00.320-06:00Wonderful post!
In response I'd like to flag ...Wonderful post!<br /><br />In response I'd like to flag a comment just posted this morning to my TPM blog:<br /><br />http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/t/h/therap/2010/04/irreligious-grad-student-nails.php#comment-3877621<br /><br />This commenter, a wonderful writer and teacher, uses a metaphor from the Hobbit and draws out the similarities between Smaug (the dragon) and the pope. Her analysis is so brilliant I've asked her to post it a blog in it own right. (I hope she will.) <br /><br />Follow the link above, which goes directly to the comment itself. It is a <b>Must Read</b>!TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.com