tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post7873903740597416508..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: colkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-60267361265565435032010-07-17T00:59:57.265-06:002010-07-17T00:59:57.265-06:00Colleen-
(repeating myself, but to a god end)
Va...Colleen-<br /><br />(repeating myself, but to a god end)<br /><br />Vatican II was the only coherent response John XXIII could have made to the 3rd Secret of Fatima. To attempt to steer the Church closer to what Jesus had in mind. And to 'save what he could' given the dire content of the message. <br /><br />What the Vatican released in 2000 was NOT the authentic secret. This has nothing to do with any conspiracy site & everything to do with coherence. The point was that the Vatican was being given a last chance to reform. Mary's message are NOT about butterflies & rainbows; they are Apocalytic in nature. Warning to the Vatican.<br /><br />...that the world is going to hell due to THEIR failings. Not because Pepe the goatherder missed mass on Sunday!<br /><br />So V2 was the 'last chance saloon' for the Vatican to finally get it right. <br /><br />Of course the Opus Dei under Escriva was VERY opposed to V2.Along with their collaborators they used their power to subvert the council. So that it never quite attainted its goal. And that the implementation would be confusing in the extreme. <br /><br />Restorationists are singing the Opus Dei song, knowingly or not. <br /><br />Anon Y. MouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-74911917200109628212010-07-15T15:51:28.619-06:002010-07-15T15:51:28.619-06:00"On Friday, the Vatican voiced "astonish..."On Friday, the Vatican voiced "astonishment" at how the raids have been carried out..."<br /><br />reaction to Belgian police raids investigating alleged child sex abuse<br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10425090<br /><br />I don't know how anything still causes these guys "astonishment" these days...but that's reaction #1 in the playbook I guess...and they will keep running the same play as long as they think it is effective.AnnikaMirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05882621691363691726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-9647921887769550962010-07-14T20:18:43.482-06:002010-07-14T20:18:43.482-06:00I agree, Colleen! That was my first thought: The...I agree, Colleen! That was my first thought: These folks are doing it again!!!TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42500713629036502892010-07-14T19:07:43.704-06:002010-07-14T19:07:43.704-06:00TheraP I was ever so shocked to see this quote in ...TheraP I was ever so shocked to see this quote in the linked article:<br /><br />"The Vatican said it was astonished and would present contrary views to a court in Rome."<br /><br />Why is it when there is direct evidence that there is harm to children the Church's response is 'astonishment' and court battles.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-25450691579718781062010-07-14T18:45:26.628-06:002010-07-14T18:45:26.628-06:00Honest to God!
O/T, from the bbc:
There is a &...<b>Honest to God</b>!<br /><br />O/T, from the bbc: <br /><br /> <i>There is a "coherent and significant connection" between radiation from Vatican Radio aerials and childhood cancer, researchers have said.</i><br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10634977TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-61860706659455639862010-07-14T16:46:37.575-06:002010-07-14T16:46:37.575-06:00Pre-Vatican II Memories:
Everything in Latin. Se...Pre-Vatican II Memories:<br /><br />Everything in Latin. Seemed to me they did they epistle and gospel in Latin too. Till one early change gave us the readings (a second time) in English and some responses as well.<br /><br />Lots of people did not go to communion. The idea of nearly everyone participating in communion came later. Not sure if before Vatican II or not.<br /><br />Only Latin was sung and then only for a "high mass". Daily masses had virtually no attendance and were nearly all Requiem Masses for the Dead. <br /><br />For children in addition to Sunday Mass having nothing to hold your attention, the parochial school added what seemed like endless stations of the cross, benedictions, rosaries, confessions AND the highlight of any year - crowning the Virgin in May - the sole job a girl could be chosen to do!<br /><br />Seems to me that "devotions" took precedence over Mass in religious training of children. Except for First Friday... but that was a devotion too.<br /><br />I have fond memories of "visiting" an empty church as a child - the only time when nothing felt forced and God seemed real.<br /><br />Maybe what galls the conservatives is that indeed Vatican II reformers "knew" ahead of time what the reforms would be. Indeed they did! As we, in 1963, as college freshman had a Liturgist from Catholic U, who utilized for us all the changes BEFORE they were approved! Because "they were coming". That, to the conservatives, must have seemed like a conspiracy. To us, they were pure liberation! <br /><br />Think also of Kennedy - the fears that if he were elected, the pope would control the US. That, right there, tells you the degree of authoritarian control via the Vatican. But think of our current Supreme Court. Mainly Catholic. At least one third Opus. And no one even questioned that as it happened! Which is even more scary!<br /><br />Think of Scripture. Pre VII Catholics were not encouraged to read the bible - because you might make mistakes! The church was your guide, to make sure you "knew the truth" as guided by the Vatican. How that was to happen is not clear, since the readings were in Latin and the sermons were about money. After Vatican II scripture opened up - as an area of study, as something lay people could read and study. However, I would also say that in their zeal to show how culture had influenced the Old Testament (and redactions, etc), it left an emptiness in reading particularly the Old Testament with a sense of immediacy or personal relevance. This latter has been rectified hugely, in my view, but may have been harder on Catholics, who hadn't read the bible the much before then or been exposed to scriptural sermons - as had Protestants.<br /><br />Many, many differences! Including people feeling freer to leave the church - if it wasn't speaking to them or taking them into consideration.TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-737396861859878002010-07-14T16:24:31.464-06:002010-07-14T16:24:31.464-06:00Anon:
The date is with you. It's Bastille Da...Anon:<br /><br />The date is with you. It's Bastille Day! (right under your question!)TheraPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684120043427738135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-84264552451257186662010-07-14T15:22:57.381-06:002010-07-14T15:22:57.381-06:00I think we need a progressive Vatican III, who'...I think we need a progressive Vatican III, who's with me?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-34964938469918219252010-07-14T15:21:10.333-06:002010-07-14T15:21:10.333-06:00My parents are in their mid 80's. When they we...My parents are in their mid 80's. When they went to primary school only about a third of the class continued on to high school. In the 1930's times were tough. Many children entered the workforce as soon as possible to help out with their family finances. It was possible, in North America, to begin a career without education but to earn a decent living. (One of my grandfathers started working in a bank at age 13 and eventually became head of their foreign exchange division in NYC.) A woman's place was in the home. The local priest probably knew more about religion than anyone else around.<br /><br />High school education was all one needed for workplace success in the next two decades. Post WW2 saw more opportunities for women but not as much progress for members of minority groups. America was at the height of its empire with unparalleled military, economic and scientific success. When my parents attended university in the early to mid 1950's they were truly part of an elite group for only about 3% of the population were college graduates. I admit my father's side were somewhat anti-clerical because they were generally better educated than the clerics. <br /><br />The two world wars did reshape Europe and the rest of the world too. Pre-Vatican 2 I remember the "civil defense" siren being sounded on the first Monday of every month. They'd changed the name from "air-raid" drill by 1960, but continued to have us prepare for the possibility of the Cold War turning hot. (I lived in a relatively remote town in Northern Ontario. We really wouldn't have been much of a Soviet target but we probably were on the flight path of a polar-route Soviet ICBM or bomber group.) We children damn well did what we were told because we felt we might be nuclear toast if we didn't. It didn't matter to me as an altar boy in that era because even if I didn't know what the Latin meant I knew to do what I was told. <br /><br />What the restorationists don't understand is that there was a different type of explosion that preceded the social changes that followed. My g-g-generation was about to become the most educated generation in the history of the world. About 1/3 of us would complete college. For the early part of the baby-boom it wasn't a requirement for success. But as a mid-boomer it was absolutely necessary to become qualified for workplace success. I don't have to say much about technological change do I? But education opened up a new world, created a new world. It wasn't just men who were attending college in unprecedented numbers, women were too. Civil rights advocacy in the mid-60's eventually led to more opportunities for those under-represented in colleges, trades, business and professions. This was the nature of the times. <br /><br />Authority was challenged everywhere, without exception. The more an organization depended on top-down authority the more it had to bend or break because the world had changed. <br /><br />Sure traditionalists lament the decline of Latin, the Classics, and the "Canon". I'm not talking about the RC Church either, conservatives clung to their Dead White (European) Males ever more tightly at universities.<br /><br />Here's a little blast from the past: "Duck and Cover"<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixy5FBLnh7o <br /><br />The traditionalist, orthodox, conservative Catholics seem to be preparing for that atomic bomb they hope never comes because all they've got in to defend themselves is Duck, Cover, and Hold On!<br /><br />I'll rephrase that as we did at Our Lady of Lourdes Elementary School: "Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye."<br /><br />p2p<br /><br />The word verification is the spookiest of all, given the topic: faust<br /><br />Faust means lucky. It also is best known for the deal with the devil made by Dr. Faustus, similar to Eve's deal, for knowledge and power!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65074548632210894722010-07-14T14:50:33.638-06:002010-07-14T14:50:33.638-06:00I do think the question is about authority.
I rem...I do think the question is about authority.<br /><br />I remember seeing a film of Merton's last speech in Bangkok. He clearly stated, "From now on, everyone has to stand on his own two feet".<br /><br />In other words, think for yourself, seek on your own, risk everything for the Kingdom.<br /><br />The young "restorationists' are afraid of doing exactly that.<br /><br />They wish, devoutly, to be told what to think and what to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com