tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post8629767676178210619..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Synod For Evangelization? Or Remaking The Church In The Elitist Image Of Opus Deicolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-35365798152451549462012-10-06T16:06:31.133-06:002012-10-06T16:06:31.133-06:00Opus Dei has made a specialty of recruiting in wea...Opus Dei has made a specialty of recruiting in wealthy and powerful circles. Their schools for business and media graduate degrees are know for their ability to get OD initiates into prestigious companies and political positions.<br /><br />I am well aware of the success OD has had with non catholic evangelization. I am also aware they have very little success with cradle Catholics who have left the Church and whose families were enculturated in pre Vatican II theology.<br /><br />There are a number of reasons OD does not appeal to cradle Catholics, and the new Evangelization will go exactly no where with Ex Catholics until some very difficult facts are honestly faced.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-39771451936030287042012-10-03T06:37:20.938-06:002012-10-03T06:37:20.938-06:00You do realize that Opus Dei is one of the more su...You do realize that Opus Dei is one of the more successful evangelizing organizations in the Church, especially with respect to non-Catholics and non-Christians, right?<br /><br />They're there because they know how to do apostolate, and most of the Church has long forgotten how. Saying "you're cool, I'm cool, we're all cool." to the grossly secular culture will NOT stem the tide of whole Catholic families leaving the Church. Authentic Catholic teaching will, and that is evidenced not only by their members (which is a tiny fraction of the people they have helped) but also by their non members of which the converts number probably three times as many if not more.<br /><br />I speak from experience, I am not a member, but a convert who owes much to Opus Dei's members, for showing me how joyful the Catholic faith is and how sweet Christian family life can be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-14037169921929788532012-09-23T15:32:55.169-06:002012-09-23T15:32:55.169-06:00Yes, Terence, you hit the nail on the head. What ...Yes, Terence, you hit the nail on the head. What is clearly in order is a re-evangelization of clerical structure and the characters that are in place. This will not happen at this juncture and is why it is necessary for Heath Care Systems, Universities and Independent Catholic Churches to maintain and grow a structure to replace the iconoclastic deadness that is Rome.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12522679695624209390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-40372758354712476302012-09-23T07:01:46.545-06:002012-09-23T07:01:46.545-06:00I agree with you that there are more ceremonial ti...I agree with you that there are more ceremonial titles than you can shake a stick at, and most of them are earned solely by donation levels. Papal knights and dames of this that and the other saint. This whole thing does seem to sell.<br /><br />As I wrote up above, I think 'elitism' is a huge piece of the new evangelization. I think that's why the so called 'new movements' are such a big part of it. It's no longer enough to be Catholic, one has to be an uber Catholic in order to earn one's way into the sacraments. It's all about Semper Fi Catholicism in which it's perfectly acceptable to tell the Catholic Lite to take their secularized selves over to the Episcopalians. <br /><br />Leaner, meaner, and elitist is real mantra of the New Evangelization. <br />colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-28482528906225540302012-09-23T06:54:34.909-06:002012-09-23T06:54:34.909-06:00Terence, that's one of the books on my must re...Terence, that's one of the books on my must read list. Pagola is another theologian on the Vatican's hit list. He even went the nihil obstat and imprimatur route. Didn't matter.<br /><br />Maybe you've hit on the reason--he makes it too obvious that Benedict and his boys have an entirely different notion of what Jesus was about than Jesus.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-90211679124557004292012-09-23T03:53:00.084-06:002012-09-23T03:53:00.084-06:00Instead of all the energy going into the "New...Instead of all the energy going into the "New Evangelizing" (of the West), I wish there could be some attention paid to re-evangelizing the Catholic oligarchy. <br /><br />I have just finished reading Jose Pagola's impressive "Jesus", a superb, scholarly analysis of the man, his life and his teaching in historical context. Going through it, I was constantly struck by the huge disparities between Jesus' ideas and methods, and those of Benedict and his lackies: if I didn't know better, I would almost think they had never heard about Jesus Christ and the Gospels. Terence Weldonhttp://queeringthechurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-59486048402211115412012-09-22T20:09:37.400-06:002012-09-22T20:09:37.400-06:00Thanks, Tom, for your interesting questions:
What...Thanks, Tom, for your interesting questions: <br />What I don't get is their motivation. What do they get out of a clericalized liturgy using antique English? What do they get out of hierarchical rather than collegial leadership?<br />I can only speak to my very narrow experience growing up in the fifties in the Vatican I Church, where I saw lots of ceremonial titles for the members of the elite, perhaps it filled a need to feel like a member of the aristocracy. Further, I can remember that graduates of Catholic girls high schools were coveted by the businesses in town because they were considered very malleable and obedient to their bosses - though, of course, it wasn't spun that way to the girls themselves.<br />Mary H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18319596057433636243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-68036429509810179472012-09-22T13:44:59.923-06:002012-09-22T13:44:59.923-06:00As far as the liturgy, they get the symbolic reinf...As far as the liturgy, they get the symbolic reinforcement of an elite hierarchical social system. In other words, the Latin Mass reinforces their own opinion of their own station in life. They identify with the priest, not their fellow pew potatoes.<br /><br />But it basically comes down to fear and control. Religion is a powerful conditioner of children. Children raised in hierarchical patriarchal models of religion will obey before they think because emotion works faster in the brain than thought. It takes a long time to break that conditioning and a lot of effort. There's many payoffs for wealthy power brokers to support a Vatican I Church. Franco certainly benefited from Opus Dei.<br /><br />Just as aside, one of the more fascinating aspects of St Jose Escriva was his obsession with possessing a noble title. The machinations he went through to get his makes fascinating reading in to his real mindset.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-73512016923167519792012-09-22T13:35:14.076-06:002012-09-22T13:35:14.076-06:00I agree that there has been disproportionate influ...I agree that there has been disproportionate influence from wealthy conservatives over the past 45 years. I understand that their ability to make large donations gets them access and the cost of running front organizations is cheap at their levels.<br /><br />What I don't get is their motivation. What do they get out of a clericalized liturgy using antique English? What do they get out of hierarchical rather than collegial leadership?Tom in U Citynoreply@blogger.com