tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post872018651389343658..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: Once Again Pope Francis Talks And Walks Like St Franciscolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-20120092395249845172013-07-30T19:55:09.659-06:002013-07-30T19:55:09.659-06:00Dennis I've always thought you hit the nail on...Dennis I've always thought you hit the nail on the head with borderline diagnosis for too many of our clergy. I also think Francis knows he's making himself vulnerable to those forces which is why I think he keeps throwing out just enough stuff for their ears to keep them listening. He is walking a very thin path with very little room for error.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-51986180676530542522013-07-29T23:59:40.461-06:002013-07-29T23:59:40.461-06:00Pace I agree, and feel that many of the Bishops ar...Pace I agree, and feel that many of the Bishops are not in stage 4 but an earlier stage 3 in which they refuse to take responsibility to their actions. Their claim to be the sole teacher of their diocese and their refusal to see the People of God and more erudite theologians as a valid and necessary part of the magisterium only points to very immature and fearful borderline personalities. I hope Francis is indeed in stage 6, but the problem for the organization is that many stage 6 people end up assassinated either physically or mind murdered by autocratic believers that is their way or the highway.rdp46noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-49301309076387072582013-07-29T12:47:48.127-06:002013-07-29T12:47:48.127-06:00This kind of talk is very helpful in terms of chan...This kind of talk is very helpful in terms of changing the culture of Catholicism and gives a permission for those in the Catholic orbit who want real compassionate change to occur to speak up. That said, while the American hierarchy continue to try to sabotage health care for the poor over the issue of contraception, or sabotage human rights and non-discrimination for gays over the issue of gay marriage, there is no real change in the Catholic Church.Pacenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72944353867663460302013-07-28T11:10:32.837-06:002013-07-28T11:10:32.837-06:00He did nail it. I loved the part about passing a b...He did nail it. I loved the part about passing a baton in a relay race. I also loved the bishops dance warm-up. ( I did get up the courage to check out Fr. Z's blog, go see it if you want a smile) I want to live in Brazil!Nancynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-8935122214642965812013-07-28T10:46:45.181-06:002013-07-28T10:46:45.181-06:00Yes, Pope Francis nailed the connections, understa...Yes, Pope Francis nailed the connections, understands that many have left and recognizes it as an Exodus. And many of us have felt pushed out and some have been thrown out. What is notable about Francis is that rather than condemn them, he truly wants to reach out to them, and to everyone in the world, and that is after all the mission of the Church, or should be. It is going to take the trads a while to grasp what Pope Francis is saying. It seems they had great difficulty accepting notions outside their box of understanding.<br /><br /><br />Pope Francis is mature in his Faith and it really shows a great example for all to see. I am thrilled to be witnessing him. For truly, the course of humanity was on the road to Gehenna with hardly the memory of the Road to Emmaus. Those dark elements are still there, but Pope Francis is a huge spotlight of hope.Fran Schultzhttp://www.reverbnation.com/franschultznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-16994649405319920672013-07-28T07:07:22.401-06:002013-07-28T07:07:22.401-06:00I love this quote in which he specifically targets...I love this quote in which he specifically targets clericalism: “What do I expect as a consequence of the Youth Day? I expect a mess,” Francis said, according to the ZENIT Catholic news agency... "I want a mess in the dioceses! I want people to go out!, I want us to defend ourselves against everything that is worldliness . . . that is comfortableness, that is clericalism, that is being shut-in in ourselves.”Western Civnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-77417350654000301272013-07-28T06:42:57.762-06:002013-07-28T06:42:57.762-06:00Thanks for the reply Colleen. Each person will hav...Thanks for the reply Colleen. Each person will have their own issues, but those who have lost their capacity for faith are going to be trapped in between. When I say faith here I mean the ability and willingness to take a risk on something greater or more wonderful than everyday life and their previous experiences would suggest. <br /><br /><br /><br />For some, it may be the fact that their religious background or current parishes/liturgies are in Stages 1-3. For others, it may be that difficulty with picking/sticking with "a" religion or tradition/community when knowing they are all imperfect and relative. For others, perhaps some damage to or deep pain in their "soul" (the part of us that has the capacity to truly dream, to dare to hope, to see and accept the big picture of life with more than nihilism or a numbing extension of daily monotony into an unexamined life). And for still others a well-earned cynicism toward religion itself. Maybe some or all of these and more.<br /><br /><br />It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-2096494145481147542013-07-28T06:36:31.921-06:002013-07-28T06:36:31.921-06:00I'm going to have to reread his sermon and pic...I'm going to have to reread his sermon and pick out my favorites. A lot of them would be the same.<br /><br /><br /> I loved the connection with the disciples on the road to Emmaus. It really does serve as a metaphor for millions who have left. I also think he nailed the reasons millions have left.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-11670672720021168982013-07-28T06:34:50.731-06:002013-07-28T06:34:50.731-06:00They are both right. Pope Francis can impact the s...They are both right. Pope Francis can impact the situation by bringing world attention to the problem and supporting the Indigenous on the ground with active Church support. Eventually the government might be forced to act. As Fran mentions below, the Amazon basin is critical to over all global ecology.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-26733659253603513592013-07-28T06:31:47.809-06:002013-07-28T06:31:47.809-06:00Getting back to Pope Francis, just saw a story wit...Getting back to Pope Francis, just saw a story with him wearing the head dress of an indigenous group from the Amazon basin. Reminded me of this post on universalizing faith. <br /><br /><br /><br />The comments below the story were interesting, as one person pointed out that the Pope has spoken out against destruction of the rainforest and called out the disrespect and damage done to native cultures, but another person claimed it was all just words and that logging companies and the like wouldn't care what the Pope says.<br /><br /><br />I somehow think they may both be right. I wonder what influence the Pope can really have on an issue like preserving the rain forests and indigenous peoples of the Amazon?Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-57992957009385265072013-07-28T06:30:44.119-06:002013-07-28T06:30:44.119-06:00To be honest Dave I think a lot of the 'nones&...To be honest Dave I think a lot of the 'nones' and spiritual but not religious could fit in this category. The abuse crisis, and in my generation, Humanae Vitae, seemed to have thrown people out of stages 3 and 4 and catapulted them into stage 5. Moving on to stage 6 according to Fowler, means people would still have to continue to wrestle with their faith and finally come to some kind of integration.<br /><br /><br />My guess is we have a lot of clergy who are in stage 5 and don't admit it, becoming Catholic agnostics for the sake of a job. Stage 5 folks would be very difficult to evangelize from the world view of stage 3 or 4 church. It's going to take someone like Francis to give people enough reason to to do the re evaluation. Someone who walks the talk. Pope Benedict didn't have a hope in hell.colkochnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-89359930168503088732013-07-28T01:59:30.687-06:002013-07-28T01:59:30.687-06:00Pope Francis has some very inspiring things to say...Pope Francis has some very inspiring things to say. I've written down some quotes and will reflect on them. These are what really stood out for me:<br /><br /><br />"The Church is never uniformity, but diversities harmonized in unity."<br /><br /><br />"I prayed for you, your Churches, your priests, men and women religious, seminarians and laity and their families and, in a particular way, the young people and the elderly: these last are the hope of a nation; the young because they bring strength, idealism and hope for the future; the elderly because they represent the memory, the wisdom of the people."<br /><br /><br />"People always start with their needs."<br /><br /><br />"The Church is called to be a means of reconciliation."<br /><br /><br />"The Church also has to learn how to wait."<br /><br /><br />"In the homes of the poor, God always finds a place."<br /><br /><br />"God appears at the crossroads."<br /><br /><br />"Ours is not an age of change, but a change of age."<br /><br /><br />"The Icon of Emmaus as a key for interpreting the present and the future."<br /><br /><br />"Do we know anything more powerful than the strength hidden within the weakness of love, goodness, truth and beauty?"<br /><br /><br />"What is missing is someone to warm their heart, as was the case with the disciples of Emmaus."<br /><br /><br />"By losing women, the Church risks becoming sterile."<br /><br /><br />Powerful words and I hear from these words the voice of a really Good Shepherd, a down to earth man with a great big heart. The entire talk he gave was truly a blessing to read. <br /><br /><br />Also when he spoke about Brazil and how God wants it to be a garden was beautiful. Brazil is very key in keeping the temperature of the Earth at reasonable levels to sustain life on the planet, from what I have read. Glad he is very aware about the environment of the earth.<br /><br /><br />Pope Francis is a lot easier for me to understand than the writings of Pope Benedict which was very confusing.Fran Schultzhttp://www.reverbnation.com/franschultznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72220411664212553852013-07-27T19:30:17.327-06:002013-07-27T19:30:17.327-06:00A bit of a tangent (my comments often are), but yo...A bit of a tangent (my comments often are), but your post reminded me that I had heard of these stages before. I looked them up online (not sure if it would be the same source as you are citing) and found this for Stage 5: <br /><br />"Its danger lies in the direction of a paralyzing passivity or inaction, giving rise to complacency or cynical withdrawal, due to its paradoxical understanding of truth."<br /><br />Especially when one is unable to substantially connect or reconnect to any spiritual framework/tradition of meaning and related community. From personal experience I think you can kind of "get it" from an observer/intellectual point of view but remain unable to commit to participation and engagement with a religion or sacred tradition. <br /><br />I wonder how many people are in such a position, having left religion in Stage 3 or 4, kind of understand the lessons of Stage 5, but find themselves not really fitting in anywhere (and perhaps also still subconsciously skeptical of fitting in with religion even if consciously they have made major reconciliations with the idea). <br /><br />Not sure there are many books or teachings aimed at such an audience (the closest material I've seen tends to be for those moving to Stage 5 or still within a tradition), but I suspect it might be a lucrative niche market. <i>Guidance for Pseudo-Stage V Faith Types</i> isn't a catchy title, but I'm sure someone in marketing could work something up. :)Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-22143644664143759822013-07-27T18:20:30.414-06:002013-07-27T18:20:30.414-06:00"To be honest, and this is not a
charitable ..."To be honest, and this is not a <br />charitable thought, every time I hear this man's name I have an instant<br /> mental association to 'clown masses'."<br /><br /><br />The verry FEW so called "clown masses" were far more dignified in the lesson or parable they portrayed than this prelate and his get up.Barbie7noreply@blogger.com