tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post8957270153878200066..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: It Really All Comes Down To A Difference In Consciousness And Visioncolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-21771990189706993762012-08-15T12:57:14.858-06:002012-08-15T12:57:14.858-06:00Olivia, thanks for the quote from Linda Hunt. It i...Olivia, thanks for the quote from Linda Hunt. It is simply terribly sad that Olmstead couldn't understand that a hospital is obligated to save the life they can save. They can't let two people die when one can be saved. This is precisely where I draw the line on abortion. Catholic teaching places the value of the life of the pre born on a higher level than the life of the mother. No male is faced with that fact, where his life is doctrinally decreed to be secondary in importance to any other life.<br /><br />I might have a different opinion if the Church based this abortion teaching on Jesus' words in which He states our own lives are to be considered of secondary importance to any other life when He spoke about laying down our lives for others. Even then Jesus was describing the highest form of understanding and did not mandate such a thing of his disciples. Only for women is this ideal of Jesus' mandated, and only in terms of pregnancy, which of course never applies to the men who made the rule. "Always for thee, and never for me." colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-52432247553971365482012-08-15T12:11:19.182-06:002012-08-15T12:11:19.182-06:00Invictus, Your focus on the issues is too narrow...Invictus, Your focus on the issues is too narrow and condemnational towards people. I wish you could move on and develop such as Thomas Merton did. <br /><br />Merton was instrumental in providing me with the real groundwork for demystifying a lot about the Church and the religious and spiritual life as well. His writing touched me on many different levels and aided my understanding of the time in which he lived. I had an estranged view of who monks were prior to reading that same book. What I admired most was Merton's honesty and the beautiful way in which he painted with words. His father was an artist. I loved his poetic spirit. When I read Seven Storey Mountain it was when I realized that I was a contemplative. I didn't really know who I was. When Merton wrote about his experience and the decision making as to which religious order he was best suited for that gave me insight into the fact there are different orders of religious in the Church and they are not all the same, because people are different and have different needs. Merton was in tune with his real self and knew what he wanted and where he was going to go. There was a place for him in the Church. <br /><br />I realized I met someone very special in Merton that I needed in my life. Also, I did not know any priests, so it was very important to hear what he had to say. I could not put that book down and something has to really engage me on a deep level for me to focus and finish a book. Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander is another great book, imo. Mystics and Zen Masters too. <br /><br />Too bad the attitude, such as yours, is to whip people with accusations of living in mortal sin if they have grown into a spirituality different than your external expectations, and the unfortunate truth now is that there is no place in the Church for real dialogue. There is a lot of censorship and denial. Merton was censored a lot by the Church. Like Hans Kung he is not given enough attention in the "official" Church. People like to name call against people too much in the Church and it is a sick immature environment to witness. People like Merton and Hans Kung are the real heroes in the Church, because they speak the truth. <br /><br />Merton lived in a different time. I have no doubt that Merton would not speak to me the way you do. I consider Merton my brother in Christ. He would never say the things to me that you have said to me.<br /><br />If anyone is in a pitched battle it would be the fundamentalist attitude in which the discussion is always dumbed down into accusations and judgments against people. Our conversations cannot grow from such an attitude because it is toxic to the soul. <br /><br />What is most important is if people are growing in their Faith. Faith can not grow with an attitude in the Church that condemns people for thinking differently than the Magisterium. Everything does not hinge on the Magisterium. It hinges on one's Faith in God.<br /><br />Merton was encouraged in his faith. He was not beaten over the head about his mortal sins. He was forgiven. He worried that he would not be accepted into the priesthood because he fathered a child out of wedlock. Merton was received into the Church to follow his calling to be a monk. There is nothing he could have done to change the fact he had a child out of wedlock. Today he'd be considered a liberal and maybe would not be accepted, imo.<br /><br />I hope you get into a deeper understanding of Merton & the heart of the people in the Church that you are too anxious to label and condemn and read his other books, especially the one's he wrote after Vatican II which led him to expand his views and perceptions. <br /><br />FranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-18998716233434873082012-08-15T10:10:21.470-06:002012-08-15T10:10:21.470-06:00I would add that if you are convinced of the Catho...I would add that if you are convinced of the Catholic's Church's love towards women faced with death as a pregnancy continues, you might want to look at this.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication_of_Margaret_McBride<br /><br />A nun, excommunicated for agreeing with a hospital ethics committee to save the life of a woman pregnant with her fifth child and with a close to 100 percent risk of death with pulmonary hypertension if the pregnancy continued.<br /><br />The only decent thing that came out of the whole sorry tale was that it made the issue public and that Margaret McBride's excommunication has since been rescinded. Someone in the hierarchy developed a brain, belatedly.<br /><br />The Diocese of Phoenix severed its affiliation with the hospital when they wouldn't promise it could never happen again, and the hospital president, Linda Hunt, made a statement<br /><br />"If we are presented with a situation in which a pregnancy threatens a woman's life, our first priority is to save both patients. If that is not possible, we will always save the life we can save, and that is what we did in this case. Morally, ethically, and legally, we simply cannot stand by and let someone die whose life we might be able to save."Olivia Cooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72826313677761698172012-08-15T08:51:29.404-06:002012-08-15T08:51:29.404-06:00"The question here hasn't been about the ..."The question here hasn't been about the legality or otherwise of abortion, but about whether or not it constitutes a grave sin, in light of the LCWR's protection of those who dissent in supporting it."<br /><br />You do understand the LCWR is not an order or congregation of nuns, it's umbrella organization. You do understand any internal discipline would have to be effected by the actual order a nun belongs to and that the LCWR has no jurisdiction. What you are demanding is that the LCWR function as a disciplinary body and it has no such mandate. This is no different than a national organization of bishops which have no mandate to discipline any individual bishop.<br /><br />With regards to abortion the LCWR has not been charged with defending abortion, but with not shouting about it from the roof tops. Same with gay marriage. Women's ordination is a different story. <br /><br />You should thank God everyday you aren't female and won't be faced with pregnancy or abortion on any meaningful level. Please add extra thanks that you can keep the whole topic safely up in your pristine Catholic head.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-89988026267422025132012-08-15T08:14:06.733-06:002012-08-15T08:14:06.733-06:00(sigh)(sigh)mjcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-66224775241703548342012-08-15T04:34:49.337-06:002012-08-15T04:34:49.337-06:00Fran,
Given the LCWR give free publicity to pro-g...Fran,<br /><br />Given the LCWR give free publicity to pro-genocide eugenicists, protection to pro-abortion nuns, and support to advocates of the ordination of women to the priesthood, I'd have to be persuaded that there's something to be gained by walking in their shoes to gain insight. In good conscience, I wouldn't be able to leave the Church in order to gain 'insight' into heresy from its own 'perspective'.<br /><br />Thomas Merton's 'Seven Storey Mountain' is a great book. I read it at the start of this year, and was so impressed that I gave my copy to my girlfriend's mother and bought two more, one for myself and one for my own mother. Indeed, the book is one of the things which has opened my eyes to the great gift of the religious life in letting people live their Christian faith without the necessary compromises of married life or the diocesan priesthood. In summary, thumbs up.<br /><br />In reading of Merton's life, you may note than in order to find his way into the religious life it was necessary for him to engage with the Sacraments, live a life of virtue according to the teachings of the Magisterium, and to struggle to conform his life to Christian truth. <br />You may also note that having done so, the Holy Spirit did not then guide him into a pitched battle with the hierarchy or into a denial of the authority of the Church or into a laissez-faire attitude to the killing of unborn babies.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-17939544129402671402012-08-15T04:07:09.403-06:002012-08-15T04:07:09.403-06:00John Fremont,
The different Jewish and Protestant...John Fremont,<br /><br />The different Jewish and Protestant understandings of killing in the womb make for interesting reading (and I'm thankful to you for sharing those insights), but as we are not Jews or Protestants their teachings don't effect the standing of Church teaching.<br /><br />Abortion is <i>gravely</i> wrong because it is the intentional killing of an innocent human life. It is wrong also because of the damage it can and often does do to the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.<br /><br />The question here hasn't been about the legality or otherwise of abortion, but about whether or not it constitutes a grave sin, in light of the LCWR's protection of those who dissent in supporting it.<br /><br /><br />Olivia Cook,<br /><br />That seems to be from a document entitled "<b>Bases of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church</b>" released by the Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church, which is good because we now know that in its complete agreement with the Catholic Church it is authoritatively representative of the largest of the Orthodox churches.<br /><br />As with the Catholic Church, the quoted extract affirms that abortion is <i>inherently a mortal sin</i>, and as with the Catholic Church it approves sensitivity for women who have killed their child out of fear for their own lives.<br /><br /><a href="http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/3/14.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/3/14.aspx</a><br /><br />If you do a page search for "abortion" it'll take you to Ch XII 2, where you'll find the Patriarchate of Moscow speaking as with one voice with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and with Evangelium Vitae.<br /><br />CCC: "<i>2271. Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.</i>"<br /><br />Evangelium Vitae: "<i>Christian Tradition(...)is clear and unanimous, from the beginning up to our own day, in describing abortion as a particularly grave moral disorder. From its first contacts with the Greco-Roman world, where abortion and infanticide were widely practised, the first Christian community, by its teaching and practice, radically opposed the customs rampant in that society, as is clearly shown by the Didache mentioned earlier. 62 Among the Greek ecclesiastical writers, Athenagoras records that Christians consider as murderesses women who have recourse to abortifacient medicines, because children, even if they are still in their mother's womb, "are already under the protection of Divine Providence".63 Among the Latin authors, Tertullian affirms: "It is anticipated murder to prevent someone from being born; it makes little difference whether one kills a soul already born or puts it to death at birth. He who will one day be a man is a man already".64</i>"<br /><br />Patriarchate of Moscow: "<i>Since the ancient time the Church has viewed deliberate abortion as a grave sin. The canons equate abortion with murder. This assessment is based on the conviction that the conception of a human being is a gift of God. Therefore, from the moment of conception any encroachment on the life of a future human being is criminal.<br />(...)<br />It is incompatible to be faithful to the biblical and patristic teaching that human life is sacred and precious from its origin and to recognise woman’s «free choice» in disposing of the fate of the foetus. In addition, abortion present a serious threat to the physical and spiritual health of a mother. (...) Under no circumstances the Orthodox Church can bless abortion.</i>"<br /><br />So you see, in defending pro-choice nuns, the LCWR very clearly separates itself from Christian teaching.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-78149654890976744732012-08-15T02:15:31.855-06:002012-08-15T02:15:31.855-06:00There are connections, but the matter is still a v...There are connections, but the matter is still a very different one and would distract from a proper analysis of either.<br />As I say, when Colkoch blogs about social justice then we can get down to business.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-28665286584962605702012-08-15T02:13:35.100-06:002012-08-15T02:13:35.100-06:00I'm on Ronald Knox now, and St Francis of Assi...I'm on Ronald Knox now, and St Francis of Assisi next, but I'll look into maybe reading de Chardin after that.<br /><br />Black and white things often have grey edges, but the LCWR's teaching is either compatible with Christianity or not compatible, and if - as you say - they are including elements which are incompatible with Christian truth (even if they retain many more elements which are compatible) then the LCWR has placed itself outside of the Church.<br /><br />And if they have done so, great effort should be taken to help them return.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-32700023115834707702012-08-15T00:19:55.092-06:002012-08-15T00:19:55.092-06:00It is notable that the Orthodox church also has gi...It is notable that the Orthodox church also has given thought to the situation of a woman who has an abortion if her own life is severely threatened by the pregnancy<br /><br />"In case of a direct threat to the life of a mother if her pregnancy continues, especially if she has other children, it is recommended to be lenient in the pastoral practice. The woman who interrupted pregnancy in this situation shall not be excluded from the Eucharistic communion with the Church provided that she has fulfilled the canon of Penance assigned by the priest who takes her confession."<br /><br />The responsibility of the mother to the children she has already brought into the world is taken into account, and the termination of the life threatening pregnancy is seen as a terrible but necessary evil. Frankly, there's a lot of Catholic priests who wouldn't react very differently to that, whatever the Vatican might say. It has always been understood at the grass roots level of Catholicism that (thank God) there have been doctors and midwives prepared to do what is necessary to save the woman's life, and not to upset His Holiness with the details. Otherwise there would have been an awful lot more little Catholic children growing up without mothers.Olivia Cooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-15827271808410851572012-08-15T00:05:23.553-06:002012-08-15T00:05:23.553-06:00Invictus, I think it is all interrelated and not s...Invictus, I think it is all interrelated and not so compartmentalized, when discussing issues. <br /><br />FranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23885755885862771802012-08-14T17:59:26.837-06:002012-08-14T17:59:26.837-06:00@ Invictus
But ah, look at this. The Bible does...@ Invictus <br /><br /><i> But ah, look at this. The Bible does make clear that human life is sacred, and that human life begins at conception (a point now backed up by modern embryology). </i> Agreed.<br /> However regarding the status of the unborn life and the morality of abortion, the Scriptures are not as clear cut. While Yahweh does tell the Israelites , "...to therefore choose life" in Deuteronomy a look through Mosaic law shows different punishments for treatments of the unborn. Exodus 21:22 deals with the accidental miscarriage which are nowhere as severe as other punishments metes under Mosaic. Numbers 5 in particular commands a woman suspected of adultery to enter the temple with her husband and drink of bitter water prepared by the priest who then accurses her womb to miscarriage and barreness.<br /><br />Also, while Judaism and our Protestant brethren regard human life as sacred , abortion is not weighted as strongly as in Catholicism and Orthodoxy. This is notable in that Jewish and Protestant traditions use Scripture as their primary guide. Tradition, if considered at all, is subordinated. Catholic and Orthodox prohibitions are rooted in the Patristic era of the Justinian Codes and early documents such as the Didache and the writings of Tertullian.<br /><br />Also, while modern embryology has shown much about the development of the human body the metaphysical issue of ensoulment still remains. Since the human person is comprised as spirit, mind and body this is important. See this article <a href="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/medical_ethics/me0116.htm" rel="nofollow"> Do Embryos Have Souls?</a>. Pope John Paul II made the same argument in his encyclical <i>Evangelium Vitae</i>, that regardless of the biological development of the human body and the philosophical quandary of ensoulment, abortion remains morally illicit. Many in the Church are questioning on what basis is it always wrong? While others are saying this is very slender reed.on which to base legal prohibitions by civil authorities. Does being immoral necassarily mean it should be illegal?<br /><br />John FremontAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-83173853612692583712012-08-14T14:10:18.953-06:002012-08-14T14:10:18.953-06:00Invictus, you fail to see my point, again.
You a...Invictus, you fail to see my point, again. <br /><br />You also say that "Nobody is throwing any nuns out." That is the agenda though. You seem to be putting the Sisters down any chance you get & I really think it is because you just don't understand because you are too focused on the letter of the law stuff. You won't find the answers in the letter of the law in this case.<br /><br />You have not read Chardin, nor walked in the Sister's shoes to gain the perspective & insight, as well as discernment & witness of the truth they have. You might not understand Chardin even if you read him, but you should try. I hope to one day read him as well. For some reason the Holy Spirit has given some the intuitive understanding of Chardin without having read his writings.<br /><br />Some don't understand Thomas Merton and can not connect with the contemplatives. Some desire to do away with contemplation all together and just get all their "answers" from the Catechism. Contemplatives do not operate or take in information the same as others might. Much needed in the Church is the freedom to contemplate. <br /><br />Contemplatives and mystics do not live by the rule book of fixed notions, but truly try to be guided by the Holy Spirit. It is a different religious experience and existence than you might imagine. Have you read any Thomas Merton books? <br /><br />Since I was very young in the 1960's, reading Thomas Merton helped to give a real overview of that time in a Catholic monk's context. I know the Holy Spirit led me to him. It was like getting a parking spot in the front of the entrance to another store, which is not Walmart.<br /><br />You are right in saying that "This matter is not yet decided."<br /><br />Oh, how will it be decided? What is the rush to judgement of the Sisters for while the priesthood, the Church, the world itself is in the condition it's in? I wonder. Priorities seem very strange in my opinion. Priorities which seem more political & financial than anything else.<br /><br />I can recall in history that the Church "investigated" and then "decided" that certain views & ideas of our universe were fixed or unchangeable "truth", was "heresy" to believe beyond the Magisterium's point of view - and the Church decided on the basis of their own arrogance & stubborn resistance to thinking beyond the status quo, that they just couldn't open up to a new scientific truth view and they were absolutely dead wrong. Let's see now if you can recall any example of fixed notions of the "Truth" that were tied to theology and notions of the universe & science and the Church's decisions that much much later were found to be in conformity with Christian teaching and changed by the Church from condemnation or heresy to being accepted as Truth?<br /><br />FranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-3648900615451458072012-08-14T13:30:44.633-06:002012-08-14T13:30:44.633-06:00Point taken. It's not so much Constantine Chr...Point taken. It's not so much Constantine Christianity as it is the Empirical form of leadership it left us with.<br /><br />When I ever I get over the top with Constantine's influence, I am not so gently reminded that at the same time Constantine was 'guiding' those male bishops at Nicaea, his mother, St Helena, was in the Holy Land researching and actually finding the spiritual foundations of Christianity. He was forming the head, while she was finding the heart. This is why I have been told repeatedly that I will never get an orb photo of the Constantine window in the Cathedral here in Helena, but have dozens surrounding the St Helena window. We have to find our heart again as a spirituality. We have gone way over board on the head part.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-74644525106000015582012-08-14T12:47:39.779-06:002012-08-14T12:47:39.779-06:00In a number of ways, Colleen, I support the thrust...In a number of ways, Colleen, I support the thrust of your vision, especially in that I reject the politics of transcendence coming to dominate Catholic rhetoric. It represents an impossible retreat from the dynanics that shape present day social relations- and therefore spirituality. I'm also for people practicing religion as it makes sense to them and not pretending or playing house (or altar) to disguise their dissatisfaction with the modern status quo.<br /><br />But I can't say I understand the thoroughness of your aversion to Constantian Christianity. The faith didn't stop in the 4th century. Miracles and spirituality abound in the Middle Ages and after. In fact, the Middle Ages are one of the richest sources for Catholic tradition and practice, storing up a momentum that would persist for centuries until even the present day. The immensity of its fruitfulness in this time, the accomplishment of a Catholic culture, shaped and formed many generations well after the disentigration of Christendom- a cultural body that gave form to their hopes and desires, and structures to their community.<br /><br />Without Constantinain Christianity, I doubt I'd of ever got to pray the Rosary with a cluster of Slovenians at an in house shrine and experience that mystical state of social communion between child, parent, elder, neighbour, land and common heritage; or that Catholic symbolism would have been able to so thoroughly penetrate the psychic language of so many, myself and yours included.<br /><br />The transformation of Christianity from sect to civilization IS Catholicism in many ways. It is a beautiful thing, not a tragedy. Problematic, yes, in today's political climate. But I think it is wrong to demonize it. It disparages some less progressive spiritualities that are nonetheless important to mant of us. jordanstfrancishttp://cityofstone.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-20899546625921995972012-08-14T12:10:41.496-06:002012-08-14T12:10:41.496-06:00The comment right above this one is for Invictus.The comment right above this one is for Invictus.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-6070858448987429522012-08-14T10:01:33.729-06:002012-08-14T10:01:33.729-06:00I know Church teaching on abortion backwards and f...I know Church teaching on abortion backwards and forwards and upside down and sideways. I assume you do as well and argue from that assumption. Silly me. I guess I'll have to cite chapter and verse from the catechism for you so your fears about my knowledge of orthodoxy are alleviated.<br /><br />The truth is the number of abortions under Democrats drops significantly, and I mean significantly as in statistically significant. The 'abortion industry' in the US has shrunk by quite a bit if one uses numbers of practioners and clinics. The most effective strategy has been to make it virtually impossible to find a clinic in which to exercise one's choice. There are other strategies other than criminalizing abortion. Unfortunately, those other strategies aren't nearly as useful for politicians who want to polish up their 'pro life' credentials.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-30987124514101347982012-08-14T09:55:36.895-06:002012-08-14T09:55:36.895-06:00It's a subject I did once discuss with the Mon...It's a subject I did once discuss with the Monsignor of my local diocese, a very wise, kind and loving man. Whose response was that canon law simply was not written to deal with a situation like the one above. But that changes in the Church and in Church thinking tend to be a matter of centuries, not years or even decades. It doesn't mean that the problem is not being discussed or thought about.Olivia Cooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-9823798862496219172012-08-14T09:52:43.069-06:002012-08-14T09:52:43.069-06:00Invictus, please do read Teilhard de Chardin. His ...Invictus, please do read Teilhard de Chardin. His vision is mind boggling, is being affirmed by quantum physics, and paints a picture of how we bring the Kingdom of God to earth--partly because we are already in it.<br /><br />Here's why your question about the LCWR can not be answered for you. Right now you are seeing things related to the Church as very black/white, either/or and in quite an absolute way. Any deviation you see is catastrophized and you wind up throwing out the baby with the bath water.<br /><br />I hold things in a both/and kind of process. For me the LCWR is both highly orthodox and not so orthodox. They are in process. That means they are open to other thinking. Big deal. The trick to merging with the existing Kingdom is to learn to hold a both/and mind set and let the process of personal discernment work. It is there one finds the Holy Spirit at work and one learns we are all connected, that we don't know the end game, and we best just go with the flow. <br /><br />Once you can do this the benefit is you always find good parking spots at Walmart.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-16455949964406984902012-08-14T09:35:51.405-06:002012-08-14T09:35:51.405-06:00...if you're not going to bother looking at Ch......if you're not going to bother looking at Church teaching, and at every turn will favour your own unchallenged impressions, of course you'll never agree with Church teaching. <br />In reasoning without the Church, you never even give orthodoxy a hearing.<br /><br />As for US politicians' pro-life credentials. Yeah. I'm with you. The abortion industry seems to have expanded freely under both U.S. political parties, so all party political pro-life claims are dubious.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-30893976278434622572012-08-14T09:28:20.288-06:002012-08-14T09:28:20.288-06:00Not read any Teilhard de Chardin, so can't rea...Not read any Teilhard de Chardin, so can't really comment.<br /><br />If the LCWR <i>are</i> faithful and orthodox, why do they invite speakers who are - as you concede - so antithetical to Christianity, defend nuns complicit in mortal sin, and defy the Church?<br /><br />The question still seems unresolved.Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-35795640101857642632012-08-14T06:19:49.592-06:002012-08-14T06:19:49.592-06:00Invictus, I watched the entire video and read the ...Invictus, I watched the entire video and read the entire article you linked. You chose the most startling statement in her talk to entirely discredit Marx Hubbard. I don't agree with euthanasia. I doubt whether most LCWR sisters do either. Marx Hubbard evidently sees the elderly as a cancer sapping the world of limited resources. Sr. Pat Farrell, in her closing remarks at the conference, renounced the myth of scarcity and welcomed an age of abundance, an abundance of life, offering a Christian rejoinder to Marx Hubbard's pessimism. The LCWR is energized by the spirit of Teilhard de Chardin. They continue his mission. The institutional church fumbled the Teilhardian ball. The New Age intercepted it, but fundamentally distorted it. Teilhard's message is Christ-centered, an apologia for Catholic Christianity, and flowed from the vision of a mystic. At the same time, he called for a full transformation of Christianity from within, a re-orientation toward the future, an evolving cosmos, where human beings and God work together to create a New Creation. The Catholic church lack the courage to move forward in such a profoundly this-worldly mission. It cannot embrace cosmology, and risk another Galileo Affair. It had a grand and majestic cosmology once, a cosmology of gravity and light, epitomized in the great Gothic cathedrals and in Dante's Divine Comedy--a cosmology not so different from Teilhard's as you might think. This was the true summit of Catholic culture, not the Renaissance. Teilhard converted me to Christianity, more than 40 years ago, and I remain deeply in his debt. He's still the way out of the cul de sac Catholicism finds itself in. The LCWR is right to continue his work. The Vatican's actions are not directed only against what it perceives as "radical feminism", but at a last bastion of Teilhardianism. It's all part of the roll-back of Vatican II.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-56394472875656468032012-08-13T16:47:19.134-06:002012-08-13T16:47:19.134-06:00It isn't only yourself who considers this situ...It isn't only yourself who considers this situation a grave injustice. I am getting ready to write another blog post on abortion and what an entirely deceptive piece of work this issue has become. It no longer has much to do with any kind of pastoral response to tragic human situations. It's all about politics. I have been utterly appalled with the hoops the right wing has been willing to jump through in order to maintain Romney/Rand...ooops I meant Romney/Ryan...are pro life. <br /><br />That can only happen in whatever parallel Star Trek universe Burke is emperor.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-30854262269608638212012-08-13T16:26:19.103-06:002012-08-13T16:26:19.103-06:00Not to mention the issue of an embryo that divides...Not to mention the issue of an embryo that divides before implantation, to produce identical twins. I don't think that anyone sane believes that they share a soul. Which at least ought to place ensoulment at the point of implantation rather than conception. But I digress.<br /><br />Returning to the situation I detailed above, what would be the response of the Church to a mother faced with the dreadful necessity of turning off a life support machine sustaining life in her dying child when all hope is gone? This is a situation that could (God forbid) face any parent. I cannot imagine that the response of a parish priest to a woman in this torment would be anything other than love, comfort and prayer.<br /><br />And yet the same woman, faced with the same situation with the unborn child in her body that cannot live outside that body because of its damage, is considered a murderer. Worse than a murderer. As is any doctor or nurse who has helped or advised.<br /><br />I don't believe it is only myself who would consider this a grave injustice. And profoundly illogical.<br /><br />The woman who has lived through this situation and has had to make the worst decision of her entire life suffers with Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, appealing to God to "take this cup away". And throughout it, Mary who watched her Son die on the cross stands beside her. Nobody who has not lived through this has the right to judge. And frankly, most priests would hesitate to judge in this situation. There are things that can only be left to a merciful God.<br /><br />Olivia Cooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23437826999115616922012-08-13T15:47:37.045-06:002012-08-13T15:47:37.045-06:00The start of most human biological life starts at ...The start of most human biological life starts at conception. Twins are a different story. Oh well what's important about a little detail like that.<br /><br />The bible actually states that human life is in existence before conception. Oh well, what's important about a litte detail like that.<br /><br />You've also left out the part about the bible having a hierarchy of human life, that not all life was equally sacred. Oh well, just another little detail.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.com