tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post989589860428827952..comments2023-08-21T03:51:17.425-06:00Comments on Enlightened Catholicism: A Papal Appeal To Family Unity And Talk Of Retirementcolkochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-87755649288041056312011-09-30T18:29:44.972-06:002011-09-30T18:29:44.972-06:00@Dennis,
I think most of the problem the laity ha...@Dennis,<br /><br />I think most of the problem the laity has with the church is based upon the ill conceived teachings on sexuality. Most of the difference has nothing to do with contraception. <br /><br />An earlier thread contained the observation that to each action there is an opposite reaction. <br /><br />Thank you for sharing your experience about religious abuse. I once observed one of my football teammates hit hard, visciously actually, on the head with the edge of a clipboard by an abusive priest. To this day it bothers me that I did not say or do anything.<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-75001551674849249502011-09-30T01:24:06.589-06:002011-09-30T01:24:06.589-06:00Great points here. We are in a classic capitalist ...Great points here. We are in a classic capitalist downfall, predicted by many economists for decades. <br /><br />A similar reference for the type of downfall that we could be in is not dissimilar to the period of time in the German economy after WWI and the years leading up to WWII with a corporatist economy handling a tremendous debt load and national pride. They became a beaten down people, had tremendous inflation, with enormous reparations to pay. Well, they did not pay it back. They got back though. Had to have slave labor to do it!! <br /><br />The German economy resorted to the same types of economic schemes, and in addition experienced the suffering which collapsed in upon itself and changed the personality of the country into a big monster. The moneyed interest, the national psyche, even leadership from the RCC was so twisted & similarly desirous then as now about protecting their property and assets and own behinds. Germany resorted to a huge suffering to many people around the world as we know and they did it with force against their own people and anyone not on their "side" - a dark side indeed!<br /><br />Scary stuff! This is so far from Christ to allow history to repeat itself because some fat cat mafioso corporate mob bosses say it's "good" for us and to just shut up as they sic their dogs on us!<br /><br />I am very concerned about the young people who have the courage enough to stand up against these corporate thugs, and the attitude of the police who "are just doing their job." So too such an attitude in a country that lost a war and "had" to get its national "pride" back by sticking it to the rest of the world whether we wanted it or not.<br /><br />The mindset after the Vietnam War in the US from right wing quarters was that we "lost" that war because of the left. Reagan showed us we still had "might." We have been steered further right wing ever since and certainly more militaristic. Apparently the biz that wants to be bigger is for using our military to keep all the poor folks in line or keep them out of our borders!<br /><br />I experienced the corporate environment and saw how it changed drastically from the 1970's. A look at what is going on now is just pitiful. I experienced the real fascists tendencies in corporate environments. They're not nice and if you are young they can destroy you, especially if a single mother. I witnessed it firsthand. One even said that the only way out of a recession was "to have a war." I couldn't believe they said that. But, that is what they believe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-15134316309368003622011-09-29T19:59:49.516-06:002011-09-29T19:59:49.516-06:00http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/09/28/ca...http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/09/28/cardinal-condemns-berlusconi-scandals/<br /><br />"“It is sad to see the deterioration of public morals and language,” Cardinal Bagnasco said in an address to Italian bishops.<br /><br />“It is especially mortifying to witness behaviour that is not only contrary to public decorum but also intrinsically wretched and empty,” he said."<br /><br />Godless shepherds = godless flocks. Simples. <br /><br />"...Pope Benedict XVI, in a telegram to Italian President Giorgio Napolitano, called for an “ever more intense ethical renewal” in Italy. "<br /><br />Excuse me while I die laughing - when Italians ever know anything about ethics ? Or Christianity, for that matter ? At least Tony Bliar wasn't a whoring, womanising orgiast with a fondness for under-age fornication. So what will the Church do about it ? Nothing. And nothing could show more clearly what an utter sham all the professions of the CC to be zealous for Christian morals amount to. The bishops - most definitely including the Pope - are very courageous while treading on those weaker than they are; but put them up agaonst an old bruiser like Berlusconi, and they are "frit".Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-9235823177818611852011-09-29T14:05:25.564-06:002011-09-29T14:05:25.564-06:00Thanks and welcome Monica. A liberal in the papacy...Thanks and welcome Monica. A liberal in the papacy? I'm thinking that's becoming an oxymoron. Besides, the last potential liberal lasted a whole month.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-71634255435741487492011-09-29T07:28:25.978-06:002011-09-29T07:28:25.978-06:00pope's "remarkable insights"?
Jesus...pope's "remarkable insights"?<br /><br />Jesus: "By their fruits you shall know them."<br /><br />http://wisdom4nothing.blogspot.com/2011/07/capstone-of-holiness.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-24700950649655859622011-09-29T07:27:05.571-06:002011-09-29T07:27:05.571-06:00Monica, as much as I would prefer to have a man su...Monica, as much as I would prefer to have a man such as JP 1 in the papacy, that is not the answer. The answer is to have a leadership that will serve the people instead shaming them into serving the institution. Perhaps JP 1 could have accomplished that by decreasing the focus of power from one man, but there will ever be a danger when an organization of governance tends toward authoritarian ways and that includes especially the governance of the US.<br /><br />p2p, I once was pretty far into the Jesuits and I hope that experience like your MBA experience helps me understand the pitfalls of authoritarianism. Although it was the Catholic ideas about sexuality that caused me to leave the Jesuits, in each year that I have been gone, I have more understood what it means to be a victim of wrong mindedness. I say this as a person who was never physically abused, but then I was also a powerful athlete and once broke the jaw of a an abusive Jesuit Priest and was not punished because the leadership knew I would never let it go if they attempted to punish me for standing up to this type of abuse. <br /><br />We as a people simply must stand up to authoritarianism. It is the most pressing issue of the day.rdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-50640889363605219122011-09-29T07:26:19.833-06:002011-09-29T07:26:19.833-06:00pope's "remarkable insights"?
Jesus...pope's "remarkable insights"?<br /><br />Jesus: "By their fruits you shall know them."<br /><br />http://wisdom4nothing.blogspot.com/2011/07/capstone-of-holiness.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65323003463177838482011-09-29T07:24:13.938-06:002011-09-29T07:24:13.938-06:00pope's "remarkable insights"?
Jesus...pope's "remarkable insights"?<br /><br />Jesus: "By their fruits you shall know them."<br /><br />http://wisdom4nothing.blogspot.com/2011/07/capstone-of-holiness.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-46977613761204705972011-09-29T05:56:18.417-06:002011-09-29T05:56:18.417-06:00I wholeheartedly agree with you, Colleen, he needs...I wholeheartedly agree with you, Colleen, he needs to step down ... would be nice if we could get a liberal in the papacy ... or is that too wishful of thinking? Love your blog!!! :)Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11706819639019535478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42567569211283841942011-09-28T23:31:41.025-06:002011-09-28T23:31:41.025-06:00“For myself, I think Benedict lost the mystical co...“For myself, I think Benedict lost the mystical connection a very very long time ago, which is why he can write good theology on some levels, but cant' act it on any level except that of ritual piety. Not surprising then that he is taking the Church right back to his early mystical roots. Trouble is you can't go back on the mystical path, you can only go forward---or utterly stagnate.”<br /><br />Yes I see very little spirituality in Benedict’s actions and lack of actions. All of Benedict's recent theology is jammed full of contradictions that he fails to rectify academically. This is not even a sign of a respected academic thought process. He has not written good theology for a very long time. Yes you can not live in either the past, because that has already happened, or the future, because we have no idea what will happen. Benedict's problem is that he can not address the issues of the present. He can not live in the present. This is an accurate sign of a personal Borderline thought process. This will not lead us into either spiritual action or deep contemplative prayer. Yes he, too, is caught in the deep dark night or even dark side. <br />A leader who tries to lead in the past or the future can not lead in the present at all. Yes it does depend on each of us recognizing the perils of authoritarian leadership wherever we find it. It is a fearful leadership that so often leads to human violence. The more we as individuals understand this our own prayerful action can help to abort some of the harm this man and his appointees are doing spirituality of society. Time for all of us not to whimper about things but to get along and find ways to change them and it dose mean stopping this type of authoritarian leadership. <br /><br />Thank God for nuns like Sister Schneiders!! Yes there is hope, but it will require schism!!<br /><br />Speaking of schism, my word verification was calogic. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-13033114526599221512011-09-28T22:08:05.202-06:002011-09-28T22:08:05.202-06:00"The only reason he's more important than..."The only reason he's more important than any of hundreds of theologians whose names are known only to readers of theological literature, is that he is the one theologian who is currently Pope. That does not make him a great thinker."<br /><br />Ratbiter, absolutely true.<br /><br />“Blessed Mother Teresa was once asked what, in her opinion, was the first thing that would have to change in the Church. Her answer was: you and I.”" <br /><br />Ah yes, but this is coming from a woman who lost the mystical connection and spent fifty years in the dark night. Which leaves one what? The same thinking and personality that brought on the dark night.<br /><br />For myself, I think Benedict lost the mystical connection a very very long time ago, which is why he can write good theology on some levels, but cant' act it on any level except that of ritual piety. Not surprising then that he is taking the Church right back to his early mystical roots. Trouble is you can't go back on the mystical path, you can only go forward---or utterly stagnate.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-76105049953543010662011-09-28T21:58:00.560-06:002011-09-28T21:58:00.560-06:00"The banking system and capitalism in general..."The banking system and capitalism in general have been able to privatize false profits while handing their failures to the public. Millions of people, the homeless, the jobless, those who cannot afford a decent living have been hurt and hurt badly at a time when the middle class, set back on its heels cannot help."<br /><br />Sensational statement.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-72827344818657205442011-09-28T21:56:46.201-06:002011-09-28T21:56:46.201-06:00http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/popes-message...http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/popes-message-to-germans-strikes-chord-in-u.s/<br /><br />"But Royal feared that American Catholics won’t read the Pope’s speeches in their entirety and instead will turn to the mainstream media’s often primitive translation of his remarkable insights."<br />_ <br />## What "remarkable insights", though ? Any reasonably intelligent theologian can come up with the same kind of thoughts; but one doesn't hear about them, because the musings of theologians are not usually thought newsworthy. The only reason he's more important than any of hundreds of theologians whose names are known only to readers of theological literature, is that he is the one theologian who is currently Pope. That does not make him a great thinker. <br /><br />"Noting that many reform-minded critics have called for the Church to accommodate a changing cultural context, the Pope said, “Blessed Mother Teresa was once asked what, in her opinion, was the first thing that would have to change in the Church. Her answer was: you and I.”" <br />*<br />True enough - but that is no reason for not changing other things too. He had a lot of a criticisms to make of the Holy Office during Vatican II, when he was a theological expert for Cardinal Frings. It's funny that many of the criticisms he made are highly applicable to the SCDF, not least to the SCDF while he was Prefect of it. It's funny, that, once someone has the authority he used to criticise, his criticisms suddenly cease to apply. In lesser beings than Popes and Cardinals, this attitude is known is hypocrisy.Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-42626876191897581152011-09-28T19:54:46.981-06:002011-09-28T19:54:46.981-06:00"Instead of reforms of institutions and struc..."Instead of reforms of institutions and structures, which for him would be a sterile accomodation of the Church to the world, Benedict XVI preached an interior, spiritual reform, centered on that supreme "scandal" of the cross "which cannot be eliminated unless one were to eliminate Christianity itself"..."<br /><br />http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1349634?eng=y<br /><br />So then, no reform of "institutions and structures". How is reforming them, making them more worldly ? There is no contradiction between interior conversion, and reform of the institutions through which the Church expresses its life. Let's just carry on with the sclerotic institution we have now - otherwise we can't have any more of those lovely scandals we like so much,and millions will stay, in the Church, instead of leaving -which would be just terrible. What planet is this man on, for crying out loud ? <br /><br />"...Benedict XVI did not in any way give in to these demands, or even mention them, but rather obliged everyone, including those who make them, to consider the seriousness of what is at stake." <br /><br />I like the implication that suggesting bishops should be chosen by the people they are to govern and not be foisted on them by an accountable & distant Rome, is somehow frivolous. Ignoring the problems of the Church because one wants not to see them is just plain irresponsible. He's sitting on a volcano, and one day it will explode. Previous authoritarian autocracies have done that, and look where it got them. <br /><br />The Pope is asking for two contrary things - for the Church in Germany to have an extensive public presence, and for it to be poor. You need £££££££££££ to have a big public presence, and that means not being poor.Rat-biternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-22800540019515422132011-09-28T16:37:02.925-06:002011-09-28T16:37:02.925-06:00p2p,
During the Bush administration an 1860's...p2p,<br /><br />During the Bush administration an 1860's law in the United States was repealed. It made shooting on the civilian populace by the government soldiers a serious crime. I am concerned about what will happen as we will continue to get Marches on Wall Street, Seattle, Chicago, etc in an ever increasing pattern. We will soon have an election on Dibolt voting machines that have been proven can be hacked by eighth graders. Dibolt explains it would be impossible to print a paper ballot that could be used in recounts. This is the same Dibolt that makes most of the ATM machines in the US. One problem is that this company does have its Canadian roots. <br /><br />The MBA culture here is that one must be an associate or Vice President before one is worthy to earn a living wage. Professionals and blue collar workers mean nothing. This is part of the new MBA ethics. It is taught in nearly every class every year here. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-75489950716806850422011-09-28T12:30:53.065-06:002011-09-28T12:30:53.065-06:00@Dennis,
I am an MBA (among other things) who gra...@Dennis,<br /><br />I am an MBA (among other things) who graduated about 30 years ago. The only "ethics" class we had used utilitarianism as its base. What a disappointment after studying philosophy, ethics, health ethics etc. as an undergrad. <br /><br />Despite the current failings of government I have optimism that our situation will improve. Having said that, nothing causes my blood pressure to rise like the current government/police tactics that criminalize dissent and stifle human rights, especially that of free speech. <br /><br />Don't get me started on the police and government conspiring against the legitimate voices of protests at the recent G8/G20 summits in Toronto. Disgusting. Don't the police realize when they use these techniques it undermines their very legitimacy and authority?<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65294263709461721852011-09-28T11:37:47.773-06:002011-09-28T11:37:47.773-06:00p2p,
I discussed with a group of academics a few ...p2p,<br /><br />I discussed with a group of academics a few weeks ago about some of our mistakes. We all were in agreement that one of the biggest occurred about 25 years ago when we agreed at a profit for the University to increase the number of MBA graduates by 500 % . So many of the other Institutions did the same thing. It was not long before there was an editorial in the LA times written by a neurologist explaining the lack of ethics in HMO denial of care. An MBA Insurance executive answered that it was about time that doctors begin to recognize that business ethics superseded medical ethics. It seems that the idea of the superiority of business ethics to all other ethics is now taught in these MBA training schools. <br /><br />The real problem has come because this group of people religiously believe their training and will do virtually anything to see that it is politically applied. This is truly at the expense of democracy and any sense of ethics. There is a sense of sticking together behind the almighty God of Dinero. The RCC believes primarily that Dinero is dispensed by God the Father to those that live in servitude to their authoritarian structure. This is not The Way of Christ. When governments mimic it, they have gone over to the Dark side. It will take lots of sweat and blood to return to an ethical governance. The US is still a very juvenile country that the solders may very well fire on a populace that demonstrates for change. Ratzinger has led the way by firing on those with new ideas, theologians, scientists philosophers and politician. No wonder he looks so much like the evil Emperor. To a thinking person he is the Emperor with no clothes. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-75738730314437093952011-09-28T11:08:58.785-06:002011-09-28T11:08:58.785-06:00@Dennis,
I too regret the war on intellect and in...@Dennis,<br /><br />I too regret the war on intellect and individuals. I abhor the so called wars on drugs and terror as well as the $3 trillion fraud that was the Iraq war. Our major institutions are being tried severely. Some have not been worthy. The banking system and capitalism in general have been able to privatize false profits while handing their failures to the public. Millions of people, the homeless, the jobless, those who cannot afford a decent living have been hurt and hurt badly at a time when the middle class, set back on its heels cannot help.<br /><br />Management "science" has long admired the millennial success of the RC Church for being the best example of centralized authority and policy with dispersed autonomy in the individual parish units.<br /><br />Withdrawing power from bishops, priests and parishes exposes the church to the very abuses you so well describe. There's not much to admire in the current scheme of things. <br /><br />I really appreciate your thoughtful commentary. It is always a pleasure to be involved in any discussion with you.<br /><br />p2p<br /><br />PS word: anticalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-65669042846119308132011-09-28T06:42:37.862-06:002011-09-28T06:42:37.862-06:00p2p,
I used to believe that we in the USA as a co...p2p,<br /><br />I used to believe that we in the USA as a country could unite and bring everything together for the "common good." However with what culminated in the Bush 2 regime, I also see that in trying to bring a forceful power together, there is a great danger that originates in leadership. We here in the US now live in a country ruled by the banksters and other large corporate types. We are now truly ruled by a mob worse than those that existed in the US during the 1920's. Instead of hits on a few small people who stand in the way of one mobsters empire, we now have a president that can make war on nations and kill millions. We live in a country that believes in perpetual war!---the wars on terror and the war on drugs. Terror has been perpetually present since the early beginnings of history. With whom do we sign an armistice? <br /><br />The leadership of the RCC is very similar. It makes war with anyone that thinks for themselves and challenges its leadership. You are right about its leadership becoming isolated and out of touch even with its own priests. It has defined itself as the ONE Church and then preceded to act as gangsters. <br /><br />Perhaps the ideas of less centralized governance, more power to states rights or individual or smaller church governances is better. Perhaps when one state does something well, others will be allowed to follow and not be commanded to do else wise. We get a taste of this with the legalization of Marijuana. As a physician, I do not believe in everyone going out and using an automobile while smoking a reefer or drinking alcohol at the wheel, but to make a drug like MJ illegal has just led to massive waste of resources. Perhaps it is true of most of the other drugs as well. Some states should have the right to try to do it another way. <br /><br />No, I welcome catholic schismatic because there is a possibility of finding new and better ways of leadership. The whole Roman structure is past archaic and the leaderships of Papa Rasi and so many other of the Popes in the past thousand or more years is living proof of a failed structure. It is not possible to live in deep spirituality and support this small group of leaders! Is this anti-catholic, perhaps it is or perhaps it is a rational contribution to what is so wrong in world governance. <br /><br />Solutions will take a lot of time, work and even violence (mostly from a fearful leadership) and will be accomplished only from the movements of ordinary people. dennisrdp46https://www.blogger.com/profile/04427786268228285222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-82714135905888964082011-09-27T19:20:43.834-06:002011-09-27T19:20:43.834-06:00I certainly have noticed that ever since ND blocke...I certainly have noticed that ever since ND blocked the view of Touch Down Jesus, ND can't seem to score Touch Downs period.colkochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03432916690101599393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-27378113228511590942011-09-27T17:37:03.891-06:002011-09-27T17:37:03.891-06:00But Touchdown Jesus is in the style of that 1960s,...But Touchdown Jesus is in the style of that 1960s, touchy-feely Catholicism that is no longer acceptable. They really couldn't tear him down, so they had to raise the stadium to hide some of the mural.<br /><br />BronxirishcatholicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-66592471493823936592011-09-27T17:01:28.414-06:002011-09-27T17:01:28.414-06:00Shades of a rock star-the headline reads "We ...Shades of a rock star-the headline reads "We Are the Pope" in German. The photo reminds me of the "Touchdown Jesus" mosaic on the front of the library at the University of Notre Dame. Before ND enlarged its stadium, game watchers could see "Touchdown Jesus" over the goal posts, now it's no longer possible to see the mosaic from the stadium.khughes1963https://www.blogger.com/profile/16118365554189078448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-45405361944770813302011-09-27T15:11:41.077-06:002011-09-27T15:11:41.077-06:00How long has Ratzinger been Pope? Sure it is easy ...How long has Ratzinger been Pope? Sure it is easy to count back to the day of election or consecration. Before that he was the trusted adviser, one better to determine matters of policy. For many years Ratzinger and others carried out the everyday tasks that the physically incapable JP2 was unable to perform himself.<br /><br />Benedict is 85. Actuarial tables show that a man similar in age and health can expect to live to 91. No one doubts that the responsibilities are heavy. It would be foolish not to plan for succession. <br /><br />Personally I would prefer a pope could retire but Curia culture suggests that it is impossible. <br /><br />Although the linked article makes a good case against very large organizations I am not convinced that size determines failure. <br /><br />To my way of thinking it is the isolation of the clerical hierarchy from the world and alienation of laity from meaningful participation in all aspects, but particularly decision making that will doom the present church.<br /><br />p2pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-23393718197038093052011-09-27T10:24:24.597-06:002011-09-27T10:24:24.597-06:00Funny, invictus, how you exclude human beings and ...Funny, invictus, how you exclude human beings and apparently can't even see that. <br /><br />God doesn't have personal relationships with cultures. He has personal relationships with individual human beings. Whether you like it or not, the Vatican does insist on including/excluding whichever individual human beings it wishes. For example it excludes me because my conscience tells me the the most important aspect of a person's life is NOT gender but the more inclusive humanity we all share. <br /><br />Now, perhaps you can explain why you think inclusive of cultures and sub-cultures is more important.<br />VeronicaT'Pelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497973041430354008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8383701632927065467.post-53998484784796299962011-09-27T04:06:45.706-06:002011-09-27T04:06:45.706-06:00"Searcher said...
The Roman church is exclusi..."Searcher said...<br />The Roman church is exclusive, not inclusive. One needs to pass all of the purity tests. When Jesus fed the 5000, EVERYONE was fed. And the abundance was left over. We can do no less than to follow him."<br /><br />It's totally inclusive, encompassing as it does pretty much every civilisation, nation, culture, and subculture on the planet.<br />What other 'church' can claim such a thing?Invictus_88https://www.blogger.com/profile/03446202385252763436noreply@blogger.com