Just think what a highly trained squad of progressive spiritual warriors could do if this was filled with Holy Water.
Perhaps it's time for spiritual progressives to get in this Spiritual Warfare Battle. It seems the conservatives can't even figure out who is under the influence of the evil side.
Spanish exorcist addresses claims of Satanic influence in Vatican
Rome, Italy, Mar 3, 2010 / 04:20 pm (CNA).-
A renowned exorcist in Rome recently released a book of memoirs in which he declares to know of the existence of Satanic sects in the Vatican where participation reaches all the way to the College of Cardinals.
A second demonologist, also residing in Rome, entered the debate this week, clarifying the origins of the information and defending the Vatican's clergy as an "edifying and virtuous" collection of prelates. (Michael the AA seems to have some difference of opinion in his ranks of exorcists.)
In a book of memoirs released in February, the noted Italian exorcist Fr. Gabriele Amorth affirmed that "Yes, also in the Vatican there are members of Satanic sects."
When asked if members of the clergy are involved or if this is within the lay community, he responded, "There are priests, monsignors and also cardinals!"
The book, "Father Amorth. Memoirs of an Exorcist. My life fighting against Satan." was written by Marco Tosatti, who compiled it from interviews with the priest.
Fr. Amorth was asked by Tosatti how he knows Vatican clergy are involved. He answered, "I know from those who have been able to relate it to me because they had a way of knowing directly. And it's something 'confessed' most times by the very demon under obedience during the exorcisms."
The famous Italian exorcist was also asked if the Pope was aware of Satanic sects in the Vatican, to which Fr. Amorth replied, "Of course, he was informed. But he does what he can. It's a horrifying thing."
Benedict XVI, being German, comes from a place "decidedly averse to these things," argued Fr. Amorth, saying that in Germany "there practically aren't any exorcists." However, he clarified, "the Pope believes (in them)." (Yes indeed, Benedict is creating his own army of exorcists.)
The Italian priest also warned of the existence of bishops and priests who do not believe in Satan in the interview. "And yet, in the Gospel, Jesus speaks extensively about it, so it should be said, either they've never read the Gospel or they just don't believe it!"
Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea Cucurull, a Spanish priest and theologian who specializes in demonology and is now studying for his doctorate of theology in Rome, responded to Fr. Amorth's assertions on March 1.
After reading reports of Fr. Amorth's accusations pointing a finger at members of the clergy, including cardinals, Fr. Fortea declared that it is a "duty of justice" to speak out in their defense.
Noting that some prelates "are more spiritual and others more earthly, some more virtuous and others more human," he wrote on his blog, "from there to affirm that some cardinals are members of Satanic sects is an unacceptable distance." (Not for progressives. For us the Vatican would be a prime strategic target.)
The Spanish priest then explained the sources of information used by Fr. Amorth to say that Satanic sects are operating in the Vatican.
In addition to the people that seek help for demonic possession, said Fr. Fortea, "innumerable persons come to us who claim to have visions, revelations and messages from Our Lord." Among these, "a certain number offer apocalyptic messages and revelations about the infiltration of Satanism and the Masons within the dome of the Church."
Fr. Fortea added that the only acceptable stance is to suspend judgment of the messages while they are subjected to time-intensive discernment, "sometimes months for each one of the cases." (It might also be acceptable to consider the influence of the 'demon' schizophrenia.)
The other source Fr. Amorth refers to, according to Fr. Fortea, is the demons who are being exorcised. Of this, the Spanish priest wrote that knowing whether or not the demon is telling the truth "is in many cases impossible." (That's the problem with delusions.)
"We can know with great confidence when a demon tells the truth in the subject directly related with the exorcism. That is, the number of demons, their name and similar things. But we cannot be confident in what regards concrete news relating to people."
"Father Amorth does not have other sources of knowledge than the two that I just cited," indicated the Spanish exorcist, "I refer to his own words for this affirmation."
Fr. Fortea observed that the existence of similar messages from the same sources is "something known by me just as (it has been) by many other colleagues for many years."
"Among exorcists, some have come to similar conclusions as those of Fr. Amorth. Others have not."
Fr. Fortea also defended those implicated in Fr. Amorth's statements, stating, "Our College of Cardinals, if we compare it with past centuries is the most edifying and virtuous that history has ever known. One would have to go back to the epoch of the Roman Empire to find a body of electors so distanced from all earthly pretension as the current one is. (Did I previously mention the world delusion?)
"Cardinals might be better or worse," he reflected, "but all have upright intentions and seek the glory of God."
He concluded by emphasizing, "Statements must be proven, especially when they are about such grave accusations that affect the honorability of those who form part of the Head of the Church as far as they help the Supreme Pastor."
What a delightful little dispute this is. A sort of my delusions are truer than your delusions kind of dispute. Or else it's a case of conservative spiritual practioners turning on each other over the Vatican carcass. Kind of like jackals. I'm sure the devil is making them do this.
However, I did run across a progressive blog whose author lays out an appropriate military course of action in which progressives, who think broad thoughts, could lead the way in this Catholic version of spiritual warfare:
Personally, I believe in demonic possession, and that it is indeed widespread. How else to account for all of the evil we see in the world today? I believe that the Pope is on the right track here, but is naive if he thinks that mere squads will suffice when it is obvious that at least two armies are needed for an overwhelming "shock and awe"campaign.
If those possessed can be identified their evil acts, then it is clear to me that massive well- organized armies must be quickly mobilized and equipped, and must carry out coordinated attacks to drive the demons out of their unwitting victims all at once, or else the demons are likely to find other vulnerable hosts to take over without even having to leave the room.. The devil and his minions will not be easily dismissed. (Only a progressive could come up with the kind of battle strategy that acknowledges Satan's true power,)
There are areas in our country where demonic activity is concentrated. These "nests of evil" must be attacked and cleared out simultaneously, and then the armies can be split into squads or platoons to fan out and clear the smaller nests which abound.
The two main infestations are large enough to pose logistical issues, and may well require small water purification plants to ensure a sufficient supply of holy water, and tank sprayers for the exorcists to use both offensively in group situations and as a defensive weapon against the inevitable vicious counter-attacks. (Here is the beginning of the Spiritual Warfare Industrial Complex. Where can I buy stock?)
Once every branch of government has been "dis-possessed"(starting with the Executive), and the financial centers in New York brought back into the light, the squads can go to work on the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and fan out to corporate boardrooms across the country, stopping at several conservative "Christian" churches and organizations on the way. (Oh, I like this part of the strategy.)
You can see that this is a massive undertaking, and the Vatican will surely need all the help it can get. Finally, we progressives are presented with a golden opportunity to quit bitching and actually do something to set our country aright. (Amen brother, amen.)
I'm sure that the Pope will appreciate your help, so get ready--you'll need a heavy-duty crucifix, a dependable tank sprayer, holy oil (Valvoline will do in a pinch), and either this or this prayer--and join the fight! (also a reliable cell phone with Fr. Amorth on speed dial and VZ Navigator)
It's way past time to drop a bomb of Holy Water on the Vatican. Fr. Amorth says so.
Haha wildly witty and very illuminating. Thanks for putting a smile on my face, even though some of the info is really scary. The best kind of satire.ReplyDelete
"When asked if members of the clergy are involved or if this is within the lay community, he responded, "There are priests, monsignors and also cardinals!""ReplyDelete
## If that is so, what the Hell (to coin a phrase; quite the *mot juste*,it seems) does the Pope mean by not excommunicating at least those who are cardinals ? Someone who worships Satan is not fot to be in the Church, let alone to be a cardinal.
Amorth needs to be made to justify what he has said, because such accusations couls hardly be more serious. If he can't justify them, then he ought to be punished; at the very least he should be forbidden to be an exorcist.
Quite a Holy Water squirter there.ReplyDelete
Looks suspiciously like a Fowler's Stage 2 model!
"One would have to go back to the epoch of the Roman Empire to find a body of electors so distanced from all earthly pretension as the current one is."ReplyDelete
Perhaps that is the explaination of your disdain for Rome?
I add my prayers!ReplyDelete
Anon, the state I model is a little smaller. The tanks are only issued to Stage III.ReplyDelete
As Jayden said, Colleen, wildly witty and illuminating. Superlative commentary.ReplyDelete
I especially like the sentence, "A sort of my delusions are truer than your delusions kind of dispute."
Isn't that precisely what many religious disputes turn out to be all about in the final analysis?
On another note, I see that your blog was hit (on this comments page) by the communications director of a national Catholic "pro-life" organization.
He hit mine, too, the same day--a repeat posting by this person on my blog. His first posting was devil-obsessed, as is the director of the "pro-life" group for which this man works. So I think that's part of what has this poster slamming your posting--its critique of the amazing diabolical obsession of some Catholics today.
His comment at my site yesterday was far more toxic, though. It accuses me of being a do-nothing old white man who criticizes other old white men (in the church) for doing nothing.
Amazing how much vitriol we can sometimes elicit from brother and sister Catholics, simply by insisting on our right to discuss matters Catholic out of their purview and censorship.
Great Colleen! I had a good laugh like Jayden and Bill did. Let the dousing with Holy Water begin!!ReplyDelete
Makes me think of the Wizard of Oz when the witch melts from water being doused.
We all know the old expression about where there is smoke ----ReplyDelete
Fr. Amorth comments & professional spiritual opinion on this are to be taken seriously: there is a grave spiritual dysfunction in the Vatican. Including those involved in 'alternative worhship' (so to speak...).ReplyDelete
Now this story takes a twist when we consider that Ratzinger is putting together an 'army of exorcists'. Ponder this: "you cannot cast out the Devil by the Devil', to quote Christ!
..there is s none too subtle hint there!
On one level these new 'exorcists' are immature Seminarians being trained by ...whom? The priests & prelates who avail themselves of the gay prostitution ring in the Vatican? Those whose moral & spiritual sense is superficial at best - who only believe in 'company policy'?
Let me drop a clue here......these men are not real exorcists in any viable sense. What the Vatican is gearing up for is a giant Right wing uber Traditionalist purge. The targets are those who (like you & I) believe in Christ as our Master, not the Princes of the Church.
They will start a new type of Inquisition against those who will not sing the company song. This includes those who truly believe in what Mary has said in legitimate apparitions & messages:
That God desires the Vatican Administrations to repent & reform - righting the wrong they have done. And setting a positive example for humanity.
Those who believe thus are the 'enemies' of the Princes of this World.....er.....the Church.
Anon, I so agree with you. It takes an enormous amount of personal maturity to deal with negative plane energy. Piety won't cut it, cynicism won't cut it, naivete and innocence will be eaten alive. That's one thing I thought the movie the Exorcist brought out well.ReplyDelete
I have no idea what Benedict thinks he's doing with his 'army' of exorcists except to use them as another front to protect the Vatican status quo.
Fr. Amorth is telling the truth even though his message is at times unpalatable for modern ears. I phrase things differently but still see the same message. There is really lousy energy involved in the Vatican.