Tuesday, May 11, 2010

Of Mystics And Prophets In Fatima And Mystics And Prophets In Rome

An adults weird sun/cloud formation can be a childs very mystical experience.

Pope, Cardinal Rodé: no time for world's women religious leaders
by Thomas C. Fox - Rome, National Catholic Reporter - May. 10, 2010

The Holy Father today, (Monday, May 10), according to the Vatican Press Office, received in separate audiences: two prelates from the Episcopal Conference of Belgium, Bishop Lucas Van Looy of Ghent, and Msgr. Koen Vanhoutte, the diocesan administrator of Bruges. He also received Italian Bishop Valentino Di Cerbo of Alife-Caiazzo, accompanied by members of his family.

Nothing unusual – except for a mention of who he did not receive in audience.

Who the Holy Father did not receive in audience was any (or all) of the 800 general superiors of international women religious orders who are in Rome from all corners of the globe for a once in three-year general assembly. These women religious represent close to 1 million women religious worldwide. (This is not the LCWR we're talking about here. This is the LCWR and the leadership of every other women's religious congregation in the world.)

The women have been meeting here in Rome since last Friday.

For the record, the Vatican Press Office reports that the Holy Father last Friday (the day the meeting of the women began) received in separate audiences five prelates from the Episcopal Conference of Belgium. Again, for the record, they are Bishop Patrick Hoogmartens of Hasselt, Bishop Aloysius Jousten of Liege, Bishop Gur Harpigny of Tournai, Msgr Jean-Marie Huet, diocesan administrator of Namur, who was accompanied by Auxiliary Bishop Pierre Warin.
The Holy Father Friday also received Mikheil Saakashvili, president of Georgia.

According to the Vatican Press Office, that meeting “provided an opportunity to examine various bilateral questions, and other important matters concerning life in Georgia, restating the commitment of the parties in favor of intercultural exchange.”

The women’s meeting is being held at the Ergife Hotel, a few kilometers from the Vatican. They are examining the topics of Mysticism and Prophecy in order to reach deeper into their souls to pull out even more courage and commitment. (Maybe Benedict found the topic un'reason'able, but then he blew them off partly in favor of a trip to Fatima. I guess it can't be the topic.)

Courage? Commitment?

On Saturday, one women religious from the Congo, Sr. Liliane Sweko, in passing, in an address on prophecy, told a stunned assembly that many of her co-religious have been assassinated, 235 in the year 2003 alone. “By the end of last year,” she added, “the number of assassinated women religious greatly increased” (This is a staggering number of unacknowledged of female martyrs from just one country in one year.)

For many of the women religious who had come from African and parts of Asia and elsewhere, their trips to Rome for this plenary assembly of the International Union of Superior Generals is a once in a life time event.
And, yes, it would have been inspiring for many to see the Holy Father.

Three years ago, when the plans for this women's meeting were first underway, an audience was put on the conference agenda. It was to be on Tuesday, May 11. However, subsequent to the announcement of the plan, the Vatican announced the Holy Father would fly to Portugal May 11 for a four-day visit, including a visit to Fatima. So the audience with the 800 women religious had to be canceled.

What the women did receive was a telegram from the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertrone, Secretary of State, saying the Holy Father is “present in spirit” and that he sends his “cordial wishes." (A telegram from the Vatican's number two....That says a lot about how much Benedict is 'present in spirit'.)

You’d think the women would be disappointed. I suspect some were, but few dwelt on it. I spoke with one who shrugging it off, saying “when you work on the margins, you really don’t expect much recognition at the center. This is the choice I made.” (No kidding.)

Nevertheless, allow me: what a missed opportunity! It should be no secret to NCR readers that tension exists between women religious in various parts of the world and prelates in the Vatican.
Our church’s sacramental and liturgical life is built on symbols. We are very good at symbols. Know this expertise, one is left wondering. How could such a spectacular oversight ever occur? What were the pope’s handlers (or the Holy Father) thinking? (There's way more money and blind obedience to be had in the Fatima cults.)

At one point, I thought to myself that had the Holy Father decided at any time during the past four days to trot over to the Ergife hotel for even a ten minute visit he could have opened a flood gate of good will and offered incalculable inspiration to women who, frankly, can use it. They deserved to be recognized. Had the Holy Father greeted them many of the women would have gone home with an inspirational story that would energize countless more. (What's personal commitment and energy when it comes without much money? Service on the margins really doesn't pay like service to the marginal wealthy.)

But it was not to be.

PS… I need to add that Slovenian Cardinal Franc Rodé, prefect of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, the congregation that these women report to and canonically work through, also was unable to make it to the gathering as well.

Turns out he was out of town. For the entire meeting. Though the meeting has been planned for three years. (Apparently Rode had three years to find some excuse to be out of town.)

He sent an aide who offered the cardinal’s greetings, but I don’t recall right now any mention of “cordial wishes.” (Rode sent an aide. Well at least it wasn't a telegram from an aide.)

Webster defines “dialogue” as a conversation between two or more persons. Yes, it needs to be two ways to be dialogue.

Are any bishops listening?


It is inconceivable to me that a similar global gathering of the leadership of men's religious congregations would be blown off the way the Vatican has blown off these women. In my book this is the perfect symbol of the place of women in the Church. In Benedict's Church religious women are worth a telegram sent through a subordinate office, even congregations who give 235 lives in one year for the Faith. Sigh.......

I'm sure apologists will say this was all unintentional. Benedict holds no ill will towards women's religious. Unintentional in this case also means "Failed to compute" and that too is an indication of where women religious fit in Benedict's scheme of the things. It's an excuse which proves the point. In Benedict's Church women don't merit equal consideration with men--especially powerful clerical or political men.

In the meantime, Benedict is on his way to Fatima on a spiritual pilgrimage to honor the only woman who seems to count in his scheme of things. He will also be honoring the mystical visions and prophecies of three children (one who became a consecrated nun) at the same time this conference on mysticism and prophecy is going on in Rome amongst other consecrated women religious. In this sense the timing is deliciously ironic.

As usual Benedict answered a few previously submitted questions on the flight over to Portugal.
I found his answer to this question most interesting:

What meaning do the apparitions of Fatima have for us today? When you presented the Third Secret of Fatima in a press conference at the Vatican Press Office in June 2000, you were asked if the message of the secret could be extended beyond the assassination attempt against John Paul II to other sufferings of the popes. Could it also be extended to put the suffering of the church today in the context of that vision, including the sins of the sexual abuse of minors? (The question is about the suffering of Popes and the Church. It does not seem to include the suffering of the victims. The spin about the poor suffering Church has worked it's own magic.)

First of all, I want to express my joy to go to Fatima, to pray before the Madonna of Fatima, and to experience the presence of the faith there, where from the little ones a new force of the faith was born. It’s not limited to the little ones, but has a message for the whole world and all epochs of history, it illuminates this history. As I said in the presentation, there is a supernatural impulse which doesn’t come simply from someone’s imagination but from the supernatural reality of the Virgin Mary. That impulse enters into a subject, and is expressed according to the possibilities of the subject, who is determined by his or her historic situation. The supernatural impulse is translated, so to speak, according to the subject’s possibilities for imagining it and expressing it. In this expression formed by the subject, there are always hidden possibilities to go beyond, to go deeper. Only with time can we see all the depth which was, so to speak, dressed in this vision, which was possible for the concrete person. (This is an excellent point, and although Benedict most likely made it to disarm the Fatima literalists, it is bang on. As my own mentors have put it, the clarity with which one is both given and interprets a vision is only as good as the Rolodex in the receivers mind. Little children do not have a very large Rolodex, (body of knowledge and experience), in which to either receive or relate a visionary experience. On the other hand, there is far less resistance to receiving the message as they have not concretized a view of reality which would preclude the possibility of such experiences. It's sort of a Catch 22.)
With regard to this great vision of the suffering of the popes, beyond the circumstances of John Paul II, other realities are indicated which over time will develop and become clear. Thus it’s true that beyond the moment indicated in the vision, one speaks about and sees the necessity of suffering by the church. It’s focused on the person of the pope, but the pope stands for the church, and therefore sufferings of the church are announced. The church will always be suffering in various ways, up to the end of the world. The important point is that the message of Fatima in its substance is not addressed to particular situations, but a fundamental response: permanent conversion, penance, prayer, and the three cardinal virtues: faith, hope and charity. One sees there the true, fundamental response the church must give, which each of us individually must give, in this situation. (Actually, like most Marian visions, Fatima was pretty specific about the corruption with in the clerical structure and called for a conversion with in those consecrated to her Son's teachings. Fatima contained a pretty specific call for clergy to experience conversion, do penance and prayer, and live as her son lived.)

In terms of what we today can discover in this message, attacks against the pope or the church don’t come just from outside the church. The suffering of the church also comes from within the church, because sin exists in the church. This too has always been known, but today we see it in a really terrifying way. The greatest persecution of the church doesn’t come from enemies on the outside, but is born in sin within the church. The church thus has a deep need to re-learn penance, to accept purification, to learn on one hand forgiveness but also the necessity of justice. Forgiveness does not exclude justice. We have to re-learn the essentials: conversion, prayer, penance, and the theological virtues. That’s how we respond, and we can be realistic in expecting that evil will always launch attacks from within and from outside, but the forces of good are also always present, and finally the Lord is stronger than evil. The Madonna for us is the visible maternal guarantee that the will of God is always the last word in history. (Neither God nor Mary will violate the sanctity of personal choice. God will certainly have the last word in history, but mankind will have the last choice. There are no guarantees.)
In this last paragraph I wish I knew just what Benedict had in his mind when he says "Church" and 'we'--which card in his Rolodex he flipped. It makes a huge difference in understanding the point of his answer and what it may portend. Is he thinking specifically of the clerical church of which he is a huge part of the 'we'. Or is this a generic kind of statement about the whole church and includes the 'we' part he ignored back in Rome?
These paragraphs exemplify exactly why St. Paul speaks of the gift of discernment coupled with prophecy. Benedict himself might not actually understand which 'Church' and which 'we' he is referencing or prioritizing. It can all be so Freudian or Jungian or Adlerian or mystical. Which is precisely why St Paul linked the gift of discernment with the gift of prophecy. Two or more personal Rolodex are generally better than one.


  1. It is difficult to discern which "we" or Rolodex card Benedict is drawing from as you point out Colleen.

    Also, the idea of "justice" and "forgiveness" where he draws his ideas of these notions from. Are they complete understandings, or opportunistic and self-centered protective one's that bring about enabling of evil, such as was done with pedophile priests?

    If he's relying on OD's cards of "justice"? Then he is bogged down with a judgmentalism of male superiority/dominance and if he is drawing from that Rolodex it is a judgmentalism and not a real justice guided by a transcendent Christ-centered view or vision.

    It seems a terrible tragedy for the Church for the men in Rome to leave at a time when they should have stayed close to "home." What a picture this brings to my mind, of the men leaving the women. It indicates many things to my consciousness. It seems to imply the men's desire to Lord it over the women, rather than to serve the women. The men in the Vatican are seeking Mary, another woman, while abandoning their women religious. It is an example seen in many "homes" by many women of their men leaving for something else or someone else seen as perfect for them. Is their Mary real though?

    word verif is innaliz - as instead of analyze only, innerlyze.....

    2nd word verif is epiremen - as in empiremen

  2. And this the men in the Vatican do at a time when the women religious are truly being persecuted and killed in the line of duty for the Church.

    It reminds me of the cheating husband while his wife has cancer. When the woman needs her man the most, he is not available, not in a real way, is praying for her death, and is cheating on her behind her back. John Edwards, Newt Gingrich, how many others have done this? Or when the woman is too old the man up and leaves her....

    That is what the men in the Vatican remind me of now. When things get tough they leave "home."

  3. Word verification: trama

    The ghost in your machine is very good, but isn't always great at spelling.

    The pope's refusal to put the nuns on his appointment list is a deliberate insult.

    Why have the "pro-life" Vatican hierarchy excluded the slaughter of innocents in war from their concern? Is it because some Catholic clergy participated in the genocide in Burundi and Rwanda? Or maybe, in the USA, they look the other way it is because founders of the notorious mercenary company, Blackwater (now Xe), Eric Prince and Joseph Schmitz are generous in their support of Opus Dei? Or is it that the victims are, in this case, women and children?

    This dirty, ugly war in Congo has produced more than enough horror to merit the world's attention. Do I need to remind you that systematic rape has been used as a weapon there? Why do we not see the victims of war as our bothers and sisters? Is it because they are African?

    Yes, Coleen and butterfly, among the Sisters in the Congo there are many martyrs worthy of recognition. Thank you for pointing out Sister Liliane Sweko's comment on the murder of our sisters. If the toll was 235 in 2003, how many more have died in the last 10 years? We need to know. We need to know their names.

    Would any of the Cardinals recognize Maria Goretti if she appeared to them?


  4. Butterly -

    The 'men' in the Vatican (and I use the term loosely....) do not believe in Mary, her words, nor her priviledges any more then they believe in Jesus of Nazareth. She is merely 'useful' to them.

    As a talking point.....like her Son, a 'corporate logo'....a medium of control over the masses.

    These men are the one who have cleverly manipulated Marian apparitions to their selfish ends.Ignoring (or twisting) her words & making the locations into tourist traps.

    They have cleverly edited out (or hidden....) portions & even whole messages from God, delivered by Mary - wherein THE VATICAN WAS CALLED TO REFORM & REPENT.

    ...they conveniently ignored those parts. Or got paid stooges to write scholarly critiques of them, positing such as 'heresy'.

    The Vatican believes in Mother Theresa - because she was a useful propaganda tool. A stooge for Opus Dei spirituality - and a marvelous global money laundering scheme.

    The poor thing did not even believe in God...YET in every photo op she is shown in an attitude of (false& posed)'prayer'& using all the typical Opus Dei talking points. They did not care that she was truly sick & needed help.

    She was 'useful' to them....thus she was 'a saint' years before her body was cold. Can you now see what is afoot here?

    The 'men' in the Vatican only care about female saints in as much as they aid their agenda. Or have quotable words which reinforce their hegemony.

    And these men served Satan by presenting to the world a fraudulent 'Third Secret of Fatima'....ghostwritten under the direction of Ratzinger himself.

    Because the REAL secret indicts THEM as the thing to beware of.

    It should come as no surprise then to learn that the Bishop who moved Lucia from the convent in Tuy, Spain to Coimbra, Portugal....was a close personal friend of Jose Maria Escriva.

    ...and that convent in Coimbra has been a Opus Dei convent 'for decades', by the very words of their superior.

    Are the scales falling from the eyes now?

    Anon Y.Mouse

  5. Mouse, I don't know if it is true that Mother Theresa did not believe in God. It seems she sure did believe that she should be obedient to the men. Her doubts might have stemmed from her doubts in the men in the hierarchy who often confuse people with loyalty to the Church institution which has nothing to do with loyalty to God.

    As for the scales coming off the eyes, what you have written may help some to see some facts they might not have heard before which would help their minds see how OD works. I never heard that there was a third secret that was totally made up and not true.

    If you think I've got scales on my eyes, you are mistaken.

  6. "And these men served Satan by presenting to the world a fraudulent 'Third Secret of Fatima'....ghostwritten under the direction of Ratzinger himself."

    This is a statement and a half.

    I've read Ratzinger's interpretation, but don't necessarily believe that implies he invented the third secret. Besides it was issued under Sodano's direction.

    But then again I also agree with Ratzinger's caveat that children can only interpret or see what they are given based on what's in the cranial rolodex.

  7. Butterfly -

    The 'scales' comment was intended for the general public - not aimed at yourself, rest assured:)

    Mother Theresa, for most of her adult life as a nun, had doubted the very existence of God on & off for decades. That is not the mark of a saint. Most certainly it is obvious that her loyalty was to men. As to what you say in re confusing God with the church hierarchy as a plausble source or her trouble - this is true for many. But any doubts & confusing stemming from this are quickly wiped away by the Holy Spirit - IF you invite Him in to do 'interior renovations'.

    There is the core of her problem: she had no faith as she did not seek it from God as a gift. Opus Dei played her like a fiddle & used her. Playing on her fears & doubts; while posing her for photo ops in an attitude of prayer, mouthing THEIR spirituality, not Christ's.

    Anon Y. Mouse

    There is a substantial body of evidence (including handwriting analysis) sufficient to claim that the Secret was wholly or partly fabricated.

  8. Colleen -

    As I said to Butterfly, there is sufficient evidence to cry 'foul' in the the Third Secret. Mundanely, there is handwriting analysis.....

    Now as to 'Ratzinger's caveat'....that is his intentional misuse of the science of psychology. He & his crew are old hat at this.

    LaSalette, Fatima, Garabandal & Akita are coherent - both with each other & with Scripture. So was the original message of Medjugore (before it was tampered with & 'used', becoming corrupted).

    The Mother of God does not enter into Time for idle chat or a cup of tea. She comes as a messenger of God the Father.

    At LaSalette she warned the Hierarchy of their gross sins & associations, which were leading humanity into a sewer. The messages were loaded with apocalyptic warnings, coherent with Revelations.

    Not only were her words/warnings ignored, the creeps in Rome had the audacity to try to hide, edit & discredit the messages as 'heresy'..yet also claiming they were 'worthy of belief'.

    Then they completely ignored Marie-Julie Jeheny, the blind, stigmatist seer of Brittany; who echoed these warnings.

    Now it is 1917. The Vatican has not ignored all previous warnings (going back to the Black Death...), & the bloodbath of WWI is the result. Thus, God sent the Mother of God with another warning - even stronger then at LaSalette.

    As the Vatican, by misuse of spiritual power & corrupt alliances with global secular powers, was leading mankind in 1917 to ruin, the call....again...was for THEM TO SAY THE ROSARY & DO PENANCE. If the priest leads, the ppl will follow.

    The pope & Vatican Administration were requested to perform a very specific spiritual action. This, in addition to all else, was posited as an 'Either/Or' proposition:

    EITHER - do what God is asking, and global disaster is averted....

    OR - what is propecied in Scripture & amplified by the words of Mary will come upon humanity.

    In each choice, the decision rested with the Vatican. Benedict XV KNEW of these things within 2 years of the Fatima events. So did Pius XI.

    They did....nothing. Thus, they chose OR. And, as promised, WWII + all that has followed up to the present day is the result of that OR. Now, as forewarned & prophecied, we see ever increasing chastisement falling upon the society of nations.

    The text of the Secret, as 'they' present' it, is lacking a key set of words. Furthermore, it was addressed to the Pope....not for the common man to read. There is nothing legitimate in the assertion that 'it is to be made public in 1960', or anytime.

    It is putting 'them' on notice that 'God knows exactly what you are up to'. It would be literal prophecy in 1917.....when it was transferred to Rome....& even in 1960. But by 1960 it was far too late; the machinery was running full tilt. Now it is unfolding.

    N.B.: none of the above has ANYTHING to do with Malachi Martin (who was closely linked with OD & the CIA), or Fr.Nicholas Gruner (a useful idiot).

    The purpose of the 2000 unvieling was simply to deflect attention away.....from truth. Part of that truth is since unfolding in the pedo-priest crisis. Yet it is so much more.

    God has always chosen young kids or uneducated/illiterate (or semi) for a reason: they would be pure vessels. They would not use their 'Rolodex'; they would remember & repeat exactly what the Mother of God told them.

    Anon Y. Mouse

  9. Colleen -

    "I've read Ratzinger's interpretation, but don't necessarily believe that implies he invented the third secret. Besides it was issued under Sodano's direction."

    I have read it also. Now a pointed question(s):

    1. Do you really think that Sodano is intelligent enough to pull this off? I would suggest.."no"

    2. Who wrote JPIIs encyclicals? Not JPII.....

    3. Who wrote the scripts for the many Papal journey' of the 'great communicator?

    ....who from the mid-80s onward sounded as if he was reading something written phonetically....which he had never seen before?

    4. While I have no proof to assert 100% that Ratzinger was the sole author of the Secret.....he most certainly directed the project. Note also that Sodano was 'Stato" while Ratzinger was 'Dottrina'.

    The (very substantial!) educational AND professorial background of the latter was in Church Doctrine & allied topics. The former, while holding degrees in similar topics (and Canon Law) has had a 50+ year career as a diplomat.

    We could say they collaborated on the project, but it should be obvious as to the brains of the operation.

    Anon Y. Mouse

  10. Praying the Rosary would help a lot of priest, Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope to get back to their Christians roots and begin uprooting what does not belong in them for their salvation. Shall the priests and Pope not take advantage of this opportunity spiritually to go into the desert and pray, the kinds of weapons that are in the world will make WWI and WWII look like a Sunday picnic.

  11. "Praying the Rosary would help a lot of priest, Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope to get back to their Christians roots and begin uprooting what does not belong in them for their salvation"

    Absolutely correct - for them, or for any soul. Even Judas could have been saved - had he repented, as Jesus said.

    "Shall the priests and Pope not take advantage of this opportunity spiritually to go into the desert and pray, the kinds of weapons that are in the world will make WWI and WWII look like a Sunday picnic."

    On an individual basis, yes. On a global scale...no. It is too late.

    The dinner bell has already rung. They chose to ignore it. On a corporate basis, they shall now get their 'just deserts" (pun intentional....)

    Jesus constantly warned the Temple Masters of 33AD. He never ceased to rebuke AND teach them. So that those who could Hear would, & repent. A few of them did; not all of the Scribes & Pharisees participated in the plot against Jesus, as Scripture tells us. One of them provided the tomb for His burial; others believed in Him.

    But as Jesus said when asked why He spoke in Parables: 'that those hearing will hear not'. In other words, those whose souls are shut off to God....'so be it'.

    He used the metaphor: "I stand at the door & knock". It is up to the individual to hear the knocking - and to let Him in. Or not. Therein lies free will.

    The point of all this in re Fatima is simply; God made an 'Either/Or proposition'. They, corporately, chose 'OR'.

    Their choice was for all humanity - as we all have sinned. Yet 'the blood of all the just ever spilled on the earth' will be avenged specifically upon they who ignore God, yet pretend to speak for Him.

    Anon Y. Mouse

  12. Or some of them are going to find out that in the big scheme of things they aren't near as important as they think they are, and that in itself will be a huge punishment and a very difficult lesson.

  13. Colleen -

    ".....huge punishment and a very difficult lesson..."

    That would be an understatement.....yet of course I agree. The reason I say 'understatement' is that many of them will not survive 'the lesson'....

    Anon Y. Mouse